Player Harassmemt, by bumping

[Dracvlad]

They need to watch this video.

[Xuxe_Xu]

@Elena_Laskova

You’re quite close to my classifying you as a stalker. Congratulations! It’s definitely an improvement in forum-status for you.

I don’t care what your “forum status” view of me is.

@Elena_Laskova

I’m sure you won’t be concerned that I generally reply to stalkers only when they say something useful or interesting.

I don’t care if you grant me the favor of your response.

[Salt_Foambreaker]

This explains a lot.

A question about PVE income for solo beginners (L1, L2 missions, rookie mining, etc)

Note for potential readers: this post has a longish introduction. If you’re a “TL:DR” type, please just don’t read the post. Introduction I could possibly be classed as an “expert beginner” at EVE: I’ve done somewhere between 5 and 10 EVE trials, the first well over ten years ago, the latest right when Alpha Clones were first rolled out. This means I know what I personally like about the process of getting started in EVE, and what I don’t like. And of course I’ve learned that nobody cares…

[Elena_Laskova]

@Salt_Foambreaker

This explains a lot.
– A question about PVE income for solo beginners (L1, L2 missions, rookie mining, etc) –

Indeed. It explains at least two things:

1. Why I sometimes describe myself as a “serial beginner”, “serial rookie” etc to save space.
2. Why I don’t care when some dimwit uses a vague but ominous-sounding open statement in the hope there might be something in one of my past posts I regret. I don’t make stuff up when I post. Feel free to continue dedicating your time to reading my old posts. It will be good for you.

[Salt_Foambreaker]

@Elena_Laskova

Why I sometimes describe myself as a “serial beginner”

And yet you argue and troll people who have played for many years.

[Elena_Laskova]

@Salt_Foambreaker

@Elena_Laskova

Why I sometimes describe myself as a “serial beginner”

And yet you argue and troll people who have played for many years.

A smart person would consider what subjects I discuss before saying something like that.

You should read some of my posts before you fumble around looking for criticisms. At least there will be a small chance you’re on topic.

[Nicolai_Serkanner]

@Elena_Laskova

I recognize “Goons” and “Pandemic Horde” - both are (or were - I remember them from quite long ago) large organizations by EVE standards. I don’t recognize the other two.

You really should not post any opinion in these forums any more; you’re obsolete.

[Vroqnex]

I was about to call you a whiner, but you have a point regarding the EULA and harassment.
They hide in Public Corps so we can’t do anything in response.
I say make them “suspect” or even better “criminal” in high sec areas for bumping.

[Talon_SilverHawk]

You know every now and again I think about coming back read a post like this, and realise the same ■■■■ is going on and nothing has improved or changed and forget about it.

P.S no you can’t have my stuff, the only nice thing about Eve now is logging in and seeing my net worth has gone up before logging out again.

[Pix_Severus]

@Talon_SilverHawk

P.S no you can’t have my stuff, the only nice thing about Eve now is logging in and seeing my net worth has gone up before logging out again.

Send me your ISK and I’ll double your net worth.

[Elena_Laskova]

@Nicolai_Serkanner

@Elena_Laskova

I recognize “Goons” and “Pandemic Horde” - both are (or were - I remember them from quite long ago) large organizations by EVE standards. I don’t recognize the other two.

You really should not post any opinion in these forums any more; you’re obsolete.

Another stalker!! Welcome to the litter /lol.

[Xuxe_Xu]

@Elena_Laskova

I recognize “Goons” and “Pandemic Horde” - both are (or were - I remember them from quite long ago) large organizations by EVE standards. I don’t recognize the other two.

You…don’t know who TEST are? *

[Solonius_Rex]

@Elena_Laskova

Back to your post: I think you assumed that the term “Experienced combat PvPers” was intended to refer to long(ish)-term EVE players. It means (and I originally thought the context made clear) “EVE beginners who are experienced combat PvPers from other games, and who decided to try EVE”.

Thats kind of a weird way to put it, but okay.

I mean, you might be a master Tournament winner at Starcraft 2, but if its your first time playing a first person shooter like Call of Duty, chances are youre not going to be very good. One area of PVP prowess doesnt necessarily transfer over to another.

And yeah, I understand what youre saying, and I find it as just a fact of video games.

World of warcraft is probably the most popular MMO in the history of MMOs, but there are people who found it boring. There is always going to be an aspect of grind that would put someone off from a certain game.

@Elena_Laskova

• EVE players have a false narrative about this: one that suggests that all the people who choose not to stay would never have enjoyed EVE, and hence would have left sooner or later

No one is saying that “ALL” the people who choose not to stay would have never enjoyed EVE. I dont think theres a single person who actually means EVERY SINGLE PERSON, EVER.

But the difference with other games and EVE, and that youre missing out, is that the so called “End-game content” that most other video games have, doesnt exist in eve, in so much that any beginning player can join in on what every vet is doing.

There is no necessary barrier preventing new players from doing almost anything that a vet can do, nor do we consider the things that only vets can do, as end-game content.

Thats how we know that many, if not most people who left eve, wouldve left eve eventually either way. If you dont like first person shooters, youre not going to like Call of Duty. Theres no telling whether or not you may have enjoyed end-game PVP tournaments, but chances are unlikely.

[Aiko_Danuja]

Today a new player was in my system, asking for help attacking a “pirate base”, which I knew to be a Guristas refugee camp. I decided to form a fleet. We were then tethered together, and he did not seem to notice my glowing red aura, perhaps because CCP’s tutorial utterly fails to explain or even acknowledge PvP.

Anyways, I decided to bump him off tether, while he talked about his awesome new ship… however, I remembered this thread, and didn’t want to be accused of harassmemt. Therefore, I fleetwarped him to the sun, where I promptly shot him.

[Elena_Laskova]

@Solonius_Rex

@Elena_Laskova

Back to your post: I think you assumed that the term “Experienced combat PvPers” was intended to refer to long(ish)-term EVE players. It means (and I originally thought the context made clear) “EVE beginners who are experienced combat PvPers from other games, and who decided to try EVE”.

Thats kind of a weird way to put it, but okay.

Not weird. Protection against equivocation. I wish it wasn’t necessary, but collectively, this forum is severely “logic-impaired”, so I do what I must.

@Solonius_Rex

No one is saying that “ALL” the people who choose not to stay would have never enjoyed EVE. I dont think theres a single person who actually means EVERY SINGLE PERSON, EVER.

A lot of people say it here, including the guy who induced the post you replied to. It’s an obvious “faulty generalization”, but it’s still part of the standard “bittervet narrative”. It’s also one of the more toxic parts of that narrative, because it’s a “call to inaction”.
In fact you’re doing much the same thing below, though in the less extreme form the that other guy I was talking to.

@Solonius_Rex

[…]
Thats how we know that many, if not most people who left eve, wouldve left eve eventually either way.

You got that from some eccentric claims, which I can summarize with one quote:

@Solonius_Rex

There is no necessary barrier preventing new players from doing almost anything that a vet can do, nor do we consider the things that only vets can do, as end-game content.

This isn’t false, but it doesn’t describe what actually happens. The interesting question isn’t something like
“Can a new player have fun if they join the right nullSec Corp?”.
It’s
“What proportion of new players actually join a high-end (e.g. nullSec) Corp, and of those, how many stay in EVE”?
The two-stage question is essential, or we’d get caught in a “petitio principii” fallacy.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if new players who joined a nullSec Corp stay in EVE. But if there’s a pre-req not available to most beginners (like the “Goons” old technique (participate in a non-EVE online forum (Something Awful?) forums for a year of two) it’s not correct to draw any conclusion about new players who don’t meet that requirement.

I don’t see where you’re going with your conclusions related to other games. For any given type of game, or specific game within the type, there’s plenty of evidence that some will like it, some will not.

We can conclude (unnecessarily that not everyone will like EVE.

But it tells us nothing about why EVE has an exceptionally poor retention rate

What does need to be considered is two related questions:

1. What kind of person tries EVE (regardless of whether they leave or not)?
2. If those, do a significant proportion of them come to EVE without any understanding of the type of game is, or of its more obvious of its defining characteristics?

The “bittervet narrative” (and, to some extent, yours) only works if the answer to (2) is “a large proportion have no idea, and leave because they discover EVE is the wrong type of game for them”.

II don’t see how that could be true. EVE is 15 years old. Information is readily available (including e.g. the free-fire PvP characteristic, and loss of equipment in PvP). And both the game and its players both have terrible reputations. How many new EVE players wouldn’t learn all this, and decide to try EVE anyway?

The only way the “bittervet narrative” works is if most of the people who try EVE are very poorly informed about EVE, and/or have hardly any online gaming experience of any kind.
Perhaps it was true in 2008, though even then EVE’s reputation was well established and well publicized . But it’s 2019 now - I don’t buy the “most new players are ignorant about EVE” assumption.

[Elena_Laskova]

@Xuxe_Xu

You…don’t know who TEST are? *

1. Why would I? They’re not relevant to me, nor to anything I’ve posted.
2. Is this knowledge a requirement for posting on this forum?

(editing for spelling)

[Xuxe_Xu]

@Elena_Laskova

Is this knowledge a requirement for posing on this forum?

Interesting. Freudian slip or simple typo.

@Elena_Laskova

Why would I?

Well…TEST is a fairly prominent EvE entity and has been for some time. Not even knowing their name when they have been heavily involved with some pretty major events in EvE for quite a while speaks to your general knowledge of the game you expound upon at length.

[Elena_Laskova]

@Xuxe_Xu

@Elena_Laskova

Why would I?

Well…TEST is a fairly prominent EvE entity and has been for some time. Not even knowing their name when they have been heavily involved with some pretty major events in EvE for quite a while speaks to your general knowledge of the game you expound upon at length.

You’re making false claims. Again. Interesting that you didn’t learn your lesson last time /lol.

My post says (approximately) TEST aren’t relevant to me; TEST (as a specific Corp of course, not a type of Corp) aren’t relevant to anything I’ve posted about.

Prove me wrong. Or work on being less economical with the truth.

[Aiko_Danuja]

He’s right. There’s your proof. You have been found ignorant by community consensus.

[Avaelica_Kuershin]

@Elena_Laskova

My post says (approximately) TEST aren’t relevant to me; TEST (as a specific Corp of course, not a type of Corp) aren’t relevant to anything I’ve posted about.

So I can take that to mean you don’t trade in Perimeter?