Calling it false doesn’t make it false. Feel free to provide objective proof, or feel free to qualify your opinion as opinion. I’m describing first hand experience that I run into naive gamers almost daily… it’s exceptionally apparent in a game like Eve, where mistakes are so quickly fatal.
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Old Pervert
I’ve provided what I need to already.
Not about “naive gamers” - you removed that from its context, thereby changing its meaning, and now you’re using it as a straw man.
I don’t need to say any more about the subject you’re attempting to hide from: your wildly inaccurate claims about the kind of gamer that tries out EVE.
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FWIW, I can see that a bittervet could perceive even players with extensive combat PvP experience from other games as being naive. Hardly anyone expects the level of dishonesty and duplicity they meet from experienced EVE players.
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A story for you:
I met the same naivety from a CCP employee once, in the “Rookie Help channel”. Some random user (actually a CCP user) contacted me and asked if they could do anything for me (it turned out to be a new service since my previous visit.
Naturally I didn’t respond. I’d played EVE before, so I assumed someone was making character names with “CCP” in them, had figured out a way to use them for rookie-griefing, and I was the next target. I did the right thing for me - I went with the likely explanation. And since I don’t talk to trash in-game, regardless of whether their actions are game-legal or not, I ignored the GM’s friendly query.
The point is that it hadn’t occurred to CCP to find a way to prove to me it really was a GM looking to be helpful. Because they’re “as naive as a rookie” (i.e. human-normal): even they don’t really understand the behavior they facilitate.
You are wasting your time on a bear that won’t last 6 months.
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It’s just another fragment of Balos’ broken personality.
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OP
I knew you have a good side! Somehow you’re collecting my litter of stalkers in one place 
They are not stalking you, just the topic of bumping.
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Avaelica
One of the factors I use to classify stalkers is that they reply to my posts regardless of topic, but (almost) never say anything useful or interesting.
If they start making useful replies I reclassify them (two in a row is enough). It’s up to them to decide if their “forum status” is higher as a stalker or as a constructive and interesting participant in the forum.
Xuxe_Xu
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EDIT: Pending modification, including removal of references (direct and indirect) to the post it originally replied to.
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I didn’t claim to be anyone’s focus. I said they’re stalkers. They’ve earned that comment about “forum status”.
The rest of your post seems to be the usual nonsense. Naturally you’d like to think I’m a troll /lol.
Before you talk to me about EVE economics again you should read this. It’s just an example of the kinds of things CCP/PA could do, not an analysis, but it might help you with your “tunnel vision” problem:
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EDIT: Pending modification, including removal of references (direct and indirect) to the post it originally replied to.
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A vague argumentum ad hominum, with no context or actual content, tells its own tale.
You’re quite close to my classifying you as a stalker. Congratulations! It’s definitely an improvement in forum-status for you. I’m sure you won’t be concerned that I generally reply to stalkers only when they say something useful or interesting.
Welcome to the age of the weak.
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So why did OP get bumped? Was he not in the possession of a mining permit?
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The rise of Goons, TEST, BRAVE and Pandemic Horde say otherwise. Your problem is seeing yourself as a victim.
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Nicolai
I can’t tell if you’re just shifting the context or actually have a point to make.
The original that you quote from has a rather obvious context of small-scale many-to-one ganking.
- If there’s a message about small-scale ganking hidden in what you said, please share it. I recognize “Goons” and “Pandemic Horde” - both are (or were - I remember them from quite long ago) large organizations by EVE standards. I don’t recognize the other two.
- If you’re conflating large-scale fleet combat with small-scale many-to-one ganking you’re using “false equivalence” to sell a false story, and it had to be deliberate
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One2many ganking is a cornerstone of this game
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Please keep posting… You have nailed so many things in this thread, I am still chuckling.
PS One of them used 10v1 as an example but that is characters, not players. Of course they don’t understand what that means in terms of your point about new players who actually have something about them seeing what they have walked into.
Very much this:
So very true this too:
These forums are full of this type of stuff.
Karak
The original says (approximately) “One to many ganking is boring for the victim”. It doesn’t imply that it should be (or even could be) reduced for established players, or banned form EVE.
Boring PvP is an issue for new players. EvE PvE (mining, missions, other PvE) doesn’t help at all. And if an MMO seems boring to them, new players will leave. It doesn’t matter that there may be less-common paths that are fun. Every obvious path should be fun. If not, new players who have the potential to stay and pay will leave instead.
The “bittervet narrative”, that every new player who leaves just wasn’t suited for EVE isn’t just obviously wrong - it’s highly counter-productive.
It implies that every player who could stay, does stay - and hence that there is no reason to change any aspect of the game to make it more welcoming to new players, nor for vets to change their behavior towards rookies.
Claiming something is perfect means that any change must make things worse. Of course such claims nearly always come from whoever is at the top of the pecking order /lol.
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Yeah I actually agree.
I think the issue is that the NPE guides the new players to the typical victim roles like mining or mission running only and does not even offer a single path to an active and interesting PvP experience.
Maybe CCP should guide them towards faction warfare instead of mining and mission running.
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Karak
Yes - exactly.
A perfect NPE isn’t possible either of course …
… but IMO it would be relatively easy to improve new player setup a lot. And of course part of setting up is getting to the point they are no worse than a moderately experienced player at identifying PvP risks and either avoiding them, or facing them effectively.
I strongly agree there should be a natural path into learning PvP. Even without the (completely unnecessary) ISK/ship loss constraint, there’s a lot more to learning PvP basics in EVE than in most games. High-end play is more-or-less constant across games (with the same “wetware” and resources, there can’t be a lot of variation in skill), but IMO getting to basic competence in EVE is relatively hard, and (except for e.g. EVE Uni and maybe R vs B (if they still exist?)) there’s no natural way to get over the threshold.
I’d expect this would actually provide more targets for experienced players - but willing targets, who enjoy the “cat and mouse” game (**), rather than reluctant targets who find it boring and a waste of time.
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or maybe this:
– https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coursing –
as seen in the Guy Ritchie movie “Snatch”
I always found it extremely puzzling why CCP would steer their new players not into PvP. It is one of the most interesting aspects of EVE gameplay and honestly the only reason why I come back to this game over and over again.
I know there are some people who enjoy mining and running the same mission over and over again, but honestly compared to what other games deliver the PvE experience in EVE is extremely dull, even accounting for the recent additions with resource wars, trigs, NPC miners and FOBs.
CCP seems to invest a lot of their development time into PvE features lately, but it is just getting nowhere. It all feels pretty underwhelming and boring and I can’t blame new players for quitting when they are confronted with that gameplay right from the start.
It may also be a bit of a community problem here. If you read lots of posts on this forums and in the rookie channel I get the impression that most vets think that new players HAVE to grind missions and mine for a couple of years to eventually be “ready” for the PvP aspect. That I find extremely toxic and is in my opinion one of the major forces that drives new players away from the game.
One should never forget that new players are not children. They are gamers looking for a new and exciting game to play, a challenge and entertainment. The worst thing you can do to a person like that is to tell them they don’t have access to those epic wars they hear about but have to grind dull missions instead.
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I find the opposite to be true, most of the people I know actively encourage new players to engage in PvP as soon as possible. The rookie channel is a poor place to use as a measure, for the simple reason that most of the people in it are new players, the older players that frequent it use freshly rolled alts to do so; some will encourage new players to PvP, while others will tell them that they need x skills to PvP.
The latter is patently false, a new player can PvP, albeit in a limited fashion, with little in the way of skills and isk if they find the right environment.
For example BRAVE, TEST, Pandemic Horde and Goons are all about empowering new players in order to help them succeed in Eve.
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