Player Kill Loot Drop Rate

Council Of Stellar Management Assembly Hall
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I would like to bring this forward for the CSM to discuss with CCP, please.

High Sec is supposed to be the safest place in the game but it is the most rewarding place in the game to kill. Kills (Ganked) | zKillboard

I would like to see loot drop rates for player killing adjusted for the region of space. High Sec should have the lowest drop rate available, with Low Sec with the next highest drop rate and Null Sec with the highest drop rate. This should push hunting/Pk to the regions of the game where they should be.

I would also like for security standing to mean something! There are -10 security standing characters actively ganking in high sec still. These characters should be podded by Concord, give Concord the diamond rat ai! If you are criminal in the game, the game should treat you like a criminal. It is pass time to make criminals pay.

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So players that hunt down outlaws and criminals shouldn’t get loot for their efforts?
Players that activate killrights and then kill their target shouldn’t get rewarded for their effort?
Players that are ganked, shouldn’t have as much chance of getting back at least some of their loss?

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I proposed a while back to reduce loot drops for kills in high sec that had Concord involved but somehow that got mass flagged as a “troll post”- Iirc I said something like have Concord “confiscate” X amount of loot.

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Ciminals and outlaws should not be in High Sec long term.

Kill rights mean nothing and a dead mechanic like bounties.

Players that get ganked are no likely to fight back or to seek vengance.

So the only thing that happens is the gankers get a pay out with no risk.

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5

Why and what difference would that make in a game where rolling new accounts and alts is just a few clicks away?

Why the need to try to nerf someone else’s play, instead of just focusing on the enjoyment you get from your own?

If people don’t want gankers to be able to make ISK from ganking, then carry less. 50% chance of a drop from less stuff, is automatically less ISK for gankers.

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6

CCP should maybe limiting tech 2 gun and tech 2 ammo to Omega account. Maybe CCP should give an balance pass aka nerf Cats? It is against EULA to have multiple Alphas or delete an account to escape security status.

I am a paying customer and as one I will bring forward what I see is wrong in the product I am buying.

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It used to be that way. They eased it to allow everyone access to T2 guns. If you want them to reverse that, then how about put a good argument, other than “hey CCP do this”.

Sure. There are lots of paying customers and you have every right to bring forward what you see is wrong. But so far, you haven’t done that.

You’ve just offered “hey CSM, tell CCP to do this”. That isn’t any sort of explanation of what is wrong, and certainly not a well reasoned argument.

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It still is that way, tech 2 large guns are locked behind the pay wall. Time for all tech 2 guns, tech ammo, and faction ammo to be behind the pay wall.

No I have brought forward facts. Stats from 2021 - DOTLAN :: EveMaps

High Sec is most dangerous place in the game because of gankers. Gankers should have risk or consequences for killing in place that is supposed to be the safest place in the game. I also stated that -10 characters are still actively ganking in high sec, these are facts.

What CCP used to always say Risk Vs Reward? If high sec is the most dangerous place in the game, where are the rewards? Well the gankers get a TON of rewards for no risk at all.

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You can have multiple alphas, just not all logged in at same time.

And they no longer consider the sec status an exploit since alphas were created.

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Something else CCP broke in favor of gankers.

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They just realized that it was next to impossible to enforce that rule due to players ability to create new accounts at will.

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I disagree. Part of the attraction of EVE Online as a game, for me, is the complex player interaction. I find the risk of attack in Highsec* keeps me engaged in my surroundings. If there was no risk of attack in Highsec, it would be really boring.

I find npcs boring. I want to have interaction with other players, not software programing.

That EVE Online has a persistant player driven “criminal element”, in Highsec, is an attraction for a player such as myself.

I appreciate the efforts of those players who provide this risk. I applaud the variety and, in some cases, persistence of their role-play.

As an example, if there were no suicide gankers, there would be no need for anti-gankers.

*As to the label “Highsec”, it is misleading, as it causes some players to feel they need not be vigilant in their ingame actions. But Highsec, as I understand it, has the highest concentration of players. In my opinion, it is like many urban centers, more people…more crime. And I like that the game provides the opportunity to mirror this aspect of life.

Seriously, if there were no opportunities for players to portray villains in the game, how could a player, interested in a non-npc interaction play as the hero/heroine.

EVE Online needs its criminal element, for players such as myself to sustain interest in the game.

This is my opinion.

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Those stats don’t show what you think they show. The ESI kills stats include all forms of loss, even when you lose a ship to NPCs.

So, just to look at ganking itself, if 20 gankers kill 1 freighter, that get’s represented as 21 kills in the data drawn from the ESI, even though 20 of those losses were from CONCORD retribution against the criminals. Even if they don’t get their kill, all the gankers would still lose their ship and appear in the data.

If new players die to NPCs, that appears in the figures. If other players die while running missions, that appears in the data, etc.

It’s a total of all loss and with highsec having more characters and more inexperienced players that die in situations that they then learn from, of course the raw numbers are higher. That doesn’t lead to the conclusion you’ve drawn though.

To explain that more, take this breakdown also from Dotlan, from the exact same data source, of losses over the last 3 hours and 24 hours:

highsec_violence
highsec_violence737Ă—300 25.7 KB

The 3rd most violent system in highsec in the last 3 hours is Uitra; and it’s the 4th most violent over the last 24 hours.

Uitra also happens to be a Caldari Career Agent system, one of the protected systems against ganking under the Rookie Griefing rules.

While you’d expect the kill data to be incomplete in zkillboard because most new players won’t even know what zkillboard is and won’t have logged in there, the kills that do show, clearly demonstrate that this is new players dying to NPCs:

If you look at the other systems in the list:

Uitra - Caldari
Jouvulen - Caldari
Couster - Gallente
Akainavas - Caldari
Malukker - Minmitar

50% of the top 10 most violent systems in highsec are consistently, starter systems and career agent systems, where the loss is overwhelmingly due to new players inexperience leading to loss to NPCs.

Of the 1190 (?? exact number now since Pochven) highsec systems, 50% of the top 10 most deadly, are caused by NPC loss.

Outside of a handful of highsec systems, players arguably face less chance of loss (because they mange themselves better) than new players face from NPCs due to lack of skill and experience.

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14

Nice breakdown.

TL/DR: that is not HS being dangerous, that is people being lazy and careless.

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15

“Hurr durr, I’ll just autopilot to Jita through Uedama with a billion ISK worth of loot in my janky, untanked Badger. I should be fine.” - Average High Sec Player…

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It’s because of the newest generation of lazy ass gamers that want everything handed to them immediately and with zero effort. I’m in Rookie Help Chat every day, and I see the exact same questions from a thousand new players every single day. “How do I autopilot?” “Where is it safe to AFK?” “If I start mining and log out, will my ship keep mining for me?”, and many more. This is why we can’t have nice things…

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It’s probably not even lack of skill and experience, I think the careers agent actually get you to deliberately loose a ship, although I might be wrong, it’s a while since I did them.

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Actually two ships.

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19

Nerf Ganking Megathread

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Are you aware that there have been at least two events that I can remember where the loot drop from player losses was actually increased? That there have been events where even pods would drop the implants? What do you think could be the purpose of such events?

How may you even consider the possibility that your proposal of reducing loot drop has a chance of being taken seriously just because you happen to think high sec should be safer than it was designed to be?