Plead with CCP to allow Capsuleers use Vanguard warclone tech directly (and vice versa)

TL;DR / Suggestion: let CSM negotiate with CCP a way (a lore excuse for example :slight_smile: ) so the requirement of creating dedicated EVE Vanguard character will not be necessary in the future when EVE Vanguard, hopefully, will be officially released as part of EVE Online here to stay with us finally Forever.

As most of you probably have heard, EVE Vanguard, an EVE Online upcoming FPS module in active development is scheduled for mass test in December.

Aka EVE OPS: First Strike

To take part in it, one will be required to create dedicated EVE Vanguard character. As of now it will be effectively a fourth special character on omega account.

EVE Vanguard will be a separate executable launched from the same launcher EVE Online is. Vanguard character can be played simultaneously along other EVE Online characters on the same account.

Disclaimer: Below is a proposition of just one of possible angles of approach to convince CCP. I bet you would come up with more :slight_smile:

Here goes…

CCP defended their decision for separate character for EVE Vanguard by pointing out vanguards are different breed of clones. They ere the grunts and Capsuleers are The Elite. I don’t wan’t to argue that :slight_smile:

Let’s take a few steps back and look from broader perspective and find a way to convince CCP it is viable to have to birbs with one stone.

First of all we, as capsuleers are infomorphs - a digitalized consciousness that operates using the biological tissues of cloned body brain. We need that body (err. brain) to exists. And that body is specially designed to accommodate that with burn scanner in the pod to ensure safe transfer of infomorph upon present clone death to another clone …or clone jump.

Vanguards are infomorphs too. They too do clone jumps …by the thousands.

And here is a loophole in CCP defense we might try to use in Capsuleers favor :slight_smile:
(and Vanguards’ too :slight_smile: )

Enter new Neural Enhancement Skills

  • Infomorph Warclone Interfacing
  • Infomorph Capsuleer Interfacing

To use warclone technology Capsuleers must buy Infomorph Warclone Interfacing Skillbook, inject it and train at least to Level I

To use capsuleer technology Vanguards must buy Infomorph Capsuleer Interfacing Skillbook, inject it and train at least to Level I

Every fresh Capsuleer would start with Infomorph Capsuleer Interfacing Skill V trained and no Infomorph Warclone Interfacing Skill injected

(times for training new skill are a placeholder, I just pasted time from Elite Infomorph Psychology)

All Capsuleer Skills would need to be updated (all that we know and train as of now) to require this skill trained to certain level. This would also allow for easier mangement of skill gateing for alpha accounts.

Every fresh Vanguard would start with Infomorph Warclone Interfacing Skill V and no Infomorph Capsuleer Interfacing Skill injected

(times for training new skill are a placeholder, I just pasted time from Elite Infomorph Psychology)

All Vanguard Skills (all that we don’t know yet) require this skill trained to certain level.

This would allow for one Skill tree and two different starting points in New Eden and equal opportunities for both Capsuleers and Vanguards to achieve if they choose so.

How could that work?

Since becoming an infommorph capable of using capsuleer technology or warclone technology requires two very different training approaches from the start, it is obvious one trainig can’t be enough to use both. Enter infomorph mode.

So if a capsuleer would like to taste thrills of fighting podless she would need to purchase Infomorph Warclone Interfacing Skillbook and train to at least Level I. I have no idea what warclone skills would that unlock honestly :slight_smile: Maybe a basic ability to use a warclone blanks and walk. Unarmed? :wink: Then further training to catch up with fresh vanguard skill level. This would be warclone mode.

Same for vanguards. If they want to fly spaceships in a pod, they would need to purchase Infomorph Capsuleer Interfacing Skillbook and train to at least Level I. That would give a basic ability to fly a pod and use a hangar. They could have their trainig queue already set up and populated with skills that would let them catch up to fresh capsuleer pilot level without the need to figure it out by themselves. This would be capsuleer mode. The one we are now in.

Infomorph jumps from warclone mode to capsuleer mode would require cooldowns before jumping back to warclone mode or to another capsuleer clone in different station. Just like regular clone jumps do. When in warclone mode there is no cooldowns between jumps from warclone blank to warclone blank upon death (no matter where that new blank is located). That’s the biggest difference between two technologies. It’s like capsuleer jump clones and medical clones rolled into one without a cooldown.

But maybe capsuleers trained into vanguards would require some cooldowns depending on their Infomorph Warclone Interfacing Skill level? Upon death in a warclone body capsuleer would need to wait few minutes (hours?) to use another one or be back into capsuleer mode. And vice versa. Vangurads upon death in a pod would need to wait few minutes (hours?) to use another medical clone or be back into warclone mode.

Finally the skill queue. I too think (as it was suggested already) that two queues need to be present. One for capsuleer mode and the other for warclone mode. As the infomorph can’t be in two modes at once so should the only one of the queues be active for coresponding infomorph mode.

All the above would certainly require ballancing and polishing obviously… and covered up by New Eden lore :slight_smile:

New Eden lore: The Capsuleer
New Eden lore: The Warclones
eve discord → #vg-feedback CCP Shortfall of CCP London clarifies
eve discord → #vg-general CCP Shortfall as well
FF’23 EVE Vanguard Panel summary by community member - non binding declarations and discussions ofc


If there’s no skill training system I definitely want my pilot running and gunning, maybe raiding some T4 PI goods from another EVE player.

If Vanguard does use a skill system I am not interested in the devil’s choice whether to train EVE skills or Vanguard skills on the same toon, and I’m not interested in paying plex for the privilege of training both simultaneously.


I’ve updated my OP with a disclaimer that this new skills explanation is just one possibility to convince CCP :slight_smile: I bet there are others :slight_smile: Maybe even simpler than what I’ve wrote :slight_smile:

I fully endorse this and having whatever Vanguard skills there will be show up in our skill tree. Whilst CCP ShortFall has stated multple times to me in Discord that its not really where they’re wanting to go, and its still early days, I genuinely think they’re missing a huge oppertunity here to have a more tight integration. Maybe that’s why they’re not actually going full steam ahead with it given the history CCP has with FPS success. That’s a fair and justified criticism as well as a fair and justified reason for not having a tight integration at the start from a CCP business development / project management perspective. There is likely also technical challenges right now between Vanguard’s backend, which is on AWS afaik, and TQ. Obviously, so early in the game, you don’t want to allow the Vanguard nodes full access to TQ’s backend network on security reasons alone without a pre/post launch security audit. But none of that should have to get in the way of saying, “yeah, lets actually talk about this if you want it so badly”.

What I would plead with CCP on at this moment in time is to not create any hard barriers between what Vanguard will launch as and us actually coming out of the capsule.

The meat of the New Eden universe is EVE Online. Isolating yourself away from that and being shy from having tight integrations will just end up with another Dust 2, 3 or 5 years down the line. You want to get capsuleers invested. This is how you do it. So lets gauge interest, build support and start having a conversation of what we want. If you end up delivering something that the majority of folks don’t actually want, then you’re wasting time, effort and money.


Hot take

I want to use my Eve character with my alliance logo in Vanguard even if I am logged in to TQ at the same time. OP used to many words and i got bored reading but I assume he does too


Moved “suggestion” to the top and added TL;DR in front in OP, that should fix the boring stuff :slight_smile:

Someone might want to remind shortfall that it doesn’t really matter where they want to go, they have to go where the players are, and having to create a whole new character to play an FPS set within the single universe they operate just isn’t going to be something most people are going to be too happy about

I get he wants to stick close to the “lore” but he also needs to understand that gameplay > lore excuse

Thing is, you don’t need to, they already have an Oauth system in place, you login with your EVE account and give it access to a character to confirm you own it, bam character name already reserved, you do the reverse for those starting their life in vanguard who might want to transition over to playing EVE, i’m not super bothered by the avatars being different but keeping hold of the name is 100% essential and they could easily create a system to handle name reservations, you wouldn’t need to give vanguard complete access to TQ’s backend you just need access to the character name endpoint and then a way for vanguard to reserve names on TQ should VG players decide to then create a character

The security risks there are minimal as you’re not actually giving VG itself free access to anything outside of a specific table used to hold reserved names and giving it read access to a new endpoint that can be used to search for entities by name to check if there will be a conflict later on, SSO handles the rest and if CCP consider their own SSO a security risk thats a different issue lol

I wouldn’t even call this a hot take, i would call this a pretty basic feature that should exist from the start

I just would like be able to copy the face of my pilot across as leader of Frostpacker and also voted as best looking by all members.

Though you have to bribe all your alts for that to happen.

:face_with_hand_over_mouth: :smiling_imp: :dealwithitparrot:

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