Vanguard better not be an extraction/battle royale shooter

Communications Center General Discussion
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**See my ideas in post 38, too.

This game reeks of trying to copy the “in thing”, and Vanguard will absolutely fail if it’s going to try and compete with all of these other niche games. Do something interesting that doesn’t revolve around griefer gameplay.

Here’s a thought;

Battlefield (or Planetside) with EVE corporations sponsoring large teams (24v24v24v24… etc etc) fighting over objectives. Have a base/spawn point for each team somewhere on the map and objectives all over the place, none of this one-life/start over again crap gameplay that’s so completely not fun at all for high skill ceiling games like shooters. This sounds way more interesting/fun to me than another cookie-cutter griefer game of 10 minute play just to lose and start over again.

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I think it will fail anyway, any shooter will fail, any vr title and every other thing than eve.

Still waiting for walking in Stations.

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Yes I really liked the idea of character/pilot interactions in EVE, maybe Vanguard will do something like that eventually and integrate the games into each other.

I don’t think a shooter is out of the question for EVE, they just need to stop being so dumb about how they do it. Dust 514 being a playstation exclusive was a huge disappointment. Vanguard being an extraction shooter is also a huge disappointment. MMO shooters can work when it’s not totally selfish gameplay. Planetside 2 is still very active, and something similar to that for EVE would work pretty well, imo. There’s also not half a dozen games with that type of thing going on for Vanguard to compete with. They want to pull players from Fortnite and Apex and Tarkov and PubG, but they ain’t going to get them no matter how hard they try. Meanwhile, nothing competes with Planetside 2 or Battlefield. That is a demographic that could easily be claimed, imo.

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CCP should be focusing on EVE ONLINE.

We need a new fresh server. We are all sick of the SSDD. Same people. Same conflicts. Same everything. The gap only gets bigger every day.

Literally 500k sp toons, starting from nothing. At least do a trial run with a few dozen systems. Change it up. Mix it up.

Let us create our own servers with our own rules with say 500 systems. We decide the parameters from what is high/low/null to ore yields to blueprint research and materials required… What ships are allowed where. WH spawn rates. I dare you to try it, CCP. Watch which styles and setups attract the most players.

It would be a sudden jolt of electricity that reawakens the heart of the game.

I’m just sick of nothing changing… because it CAN’T.

Let the old guard wallow in the bland, boring, meaningless world they made for themselves. Let the rest of us move the hell on to a better world.

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Thank you

Thank you !!!

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EVE Online could probably use a fresh start server for sure. The game has been online for 20 years… that’s 20 years of gamer bloat and stagnation… Unfortunately, you can’t really stop people from playing the meta now. Everyone that plays EVE and will continue to play EVE practically already knows everything they need to know about it, so trying to recapture that “new game smell” will simply never happen. If the majority of players abandon the old server for the new one, they’ll just reestablish themselves using the same tricks they did before, with the added knowledge of knowing what works best and when.

But, while you can’t really change the dynamic of the game anymore, you can introduce new concepts to it that shuffle it a bit, which is why I thought pilot interactions with the world would be something interesting and worth expanding on. A little bit of extra roleplay and immersion would go a long way.

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AGREED

I will give up vanguard if it’s just a battleroyale or extraction because I hate hide and seek FPS. And given I consider myself pretty ok at FPS back in my tf2 days lol.

Hope we get more of a massive war deal. Like planetside 2 tbh.

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My two cents? Get involved with it. Extraction/Battle Royale are big because they make for a solid core gameplay loop. I think CCP have made it very clear with the language they’re using that they want to build a foundation first and then build the rest on top. Tell them what you want. Want an open world to explore with vehicles and maybe a handful of other players? Tell 'em. Want combat salvaging where you strip ship components in zero-g? Tell 'em. How about something like Enlisted where you command a whole squad on a battlefield? I’m sure they are all ears.

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I must say I also have no interest whatsoever in a battleroyale or extraction shooter. I thought it was gonna be a Destiny clone or perhaps an arena shooter like Halo.

I grew up on Bungie shooters and was getting excited for Vanguard thinking it was gonna be like that, if it isn’t, then I have little interest in it.

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I did that in the OP, and in my post after that. If the foundation of the game is going to be extraction/battle royale, and all they care about is this “gameplay loop” that’s “big”, then it’s dead on arrival. They simply cannot come out of no where and try to compete with the half dozen already established and super successful games in their own right. They need to do something else. This is simply an argument of saturation, and Vanguard will fail miserably at it.

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I think maybe we’re having a communication failure here. I’m not appealing to the popularity of the model as a justification for using it, I’m referencing why it’s so proliferate. It’s less time consuming to construct than a greater system. That greater system can come later after the ground level fighting is built up and out. If the gunfights and gear work on 1v1 and 4v4 scale they should work 10v10 or even 100v100.

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Technically there was nothing really wrong with the core concept of Dust 541, they just made the completely ridiculous decision to make it a console exclusive game. That entire fiasco struck me as an attempt to squeeze in on the much more lucrative console market instead of doing what made a LOT more sense at the time; release it for everyone, not the people that will get tired of it and move on to the next game of the month when it releases. It wasn’t even until recently that consoles (and specific games) even had a super dedicated fanbase that MMO’s/PC’s had.

But this is important because of what I mentioned in the OP; this game REAKS of trying to appeal to a niche market again, and they have no business being in it, expecting those people to give up their time spent in those games to come play theirs when there is already numerous games doing the same thing… makes no sense at all. They need to pick a hungry demographic that has no other options at the moment (like Planetside and Battlefield) and work from there.

Also marketing your new concept as another cookie cutter battle royale that are already a very specific group of video game players is just going to end up scaring most everyone away right from the start… maybe this playtest fail will be a good thing and force them to redesign the game to something more open and friendly to new players, instead of relying on this hardcore fanbase of people who just like punishing other people and taking their stuff, which is an egregiously awful way of playing a game that is meant to be fun.

This whole thing is basically what Pantheon just recently tried to do by releasing some weird fantasy extraction beta under the guise of “testing new mechanics”, and it was immediately crapped on by all of their supporters wondering why a fantasy MMO that started out as a spiritual successor to Everquest is releasing some garbage extraction game that no one asked for, and here we’re getting a “come play our cool FPS” that is just another nothing-special battle royale for people to grief other players in… oh, but it’s just about testing things!.. right, like a battle royale/extraction game wasn’t the intention because it’s totally not the “cool thing” that everyone does these days…

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Well said no debate on this. Many loved the idea on paper. Sounded awesome. So, we pray CCP has learned from that horrible mistake and Dust 541 should probably be included in the list of failed business diversification lessons that students learn from.

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Appealing to an extremely niche audience is kinda what EVE does and always has. That said I agree with the spirit of your critique. Vanguard needs to become more than an extraction shooter if it wants to survive and thrive. Looking toward games like Planetside, Battlefield, and Enlisted as inspirations is a good idea. There needs to be a solid foundation before that house can be built: An arsenal of guns, a wardrobe of dropsuits, and a ton of metrics collected to understand how players fight, act, and die. Keeping it simple at first builds that base.

All I can do is point at the obviously very early state of the game and CCP’s adamant assertion that they wanted to bring the community into the development cycle. Definitely looks like they’re testing things across a broad spectrum and the extraction shooter model encompasses most of the core concepts they’d need. PvP, PvE, combat statistics, weapon balancing, netcode, spawn logic. It’s a good prototype.

I hope that everyone who wants to see it be something bigger and better approaches it with aspirations instead of expectations.

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Why are you even commenting on it when you don’t know ? Gosh…people are getting their whining in now before they’ve even played a game…lol.

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I did play it… for a total of 5 minutes, which told me everything I needed to know about it. I land, I start a mission, I got to a mission spot that someone already found, I get shot at by this person, I wonder if I should shoot them back, another player wanders in, we look at each other with the same befuddled question, I get killed by the first player who takes the crap I have that I don’t even know what it’s used for.

Great game, 1/10.

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Its not a full game.

Keep playing and tell ccp what you think after the 29th

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I can tell you what most people are thinking. “I don’t like getting shot in the back by a bottom feeder camping the drop box instead of doing the objectives themselves.”

Oh and “wow interesting my headshot did 15 damage but his melee attack on my arm did 75”

I actually just legit died from 24 damage as a fresh clone with full health and full shield.

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I can try to be a little more productive and throw out some ideas, even though this kind of thing typically doesn’t go anywhere… everyone has ideas, getting everyone to agree is so much different.

First I’d start off by saying that I don’t think it’s particularly hard to make a “good” FPS game - there are plenty of templates already out there to pull from, and since they already seem to be copying the battle royale/extraction method, clearly they’re not against it. I think the hard part is finding out what would potentially link up and work together with EVE Online that will be more difficult to figure out.

Dust 541 had some interesting ideas about how to get EVE Online players involved, and it could be expanded on. I like the idea of maybe having corporations forming battlegroups (maybe 50 players a piece?) that they “hire” on, like joining the corporation. These battlegroups can be placed against other battlegroups from other corporations for large scale war with objectives to capture, not unlike Planetside/Battlefield (that i’ve seen be the predominant idea of what Vanguard should have been in the first place). Additionally, there could be mercenary freelancers to fill in for battlegroups short of their 50 players, basically just people who don’t care about who they fight for and just want to play and can be used to fill in games.

I suppose you’d have to offer some incentive for these people too, maybe ISK that can be spent on varying types of cosmetic armors and weapon skins, similar to how pretty much every FPS game operates these days with battlepass rewards and other store bought skins. People that join a corp battlegroup get payment for completed missions (set by the Corp), and those corps can also set up payment for mercenaries too… basically ways for people to spend their billions from EVE.

They could do something like Commander role from Battlefield, Savage, C&C Renegade… others maybe… capturing points grants resources, the Commander (some guy in EVE) spends those resources on building various defenses and other buildings like producing vehicles. Ticket gameplay like Battlefield would be a good way of running these games, though I also like the Rush, Breakthrough and the tug of war type game modes.

Maybe tie in some new skill trees from EVE that affect these battles, have dedicated functions for these players in EVE, just a different job/another form of gameplay for people to have fun with. Unaffialiated EVE players could also train in these things and maybe get matched with other games, assuming there are enough players in Vanguard to do such a thing.

Multi-battlegroup warfare should be a must. Several different corporations putting their battlegroups in large battles trying to take the resources for themselves, etc etc. 50v50v50v50, etc etc.

I do think there should be more simple immersion mechanics involved in EVE and Vanguard, too. For Vanguard, you could have corp meeting spaces kind of like how guild houses worked in things like Everquest 2 and SWTOR. Corp leaders can design and build their facilities, give Vanguard players options to design their living spaces with their pay, things to collect and display, some other forms of interaction with EVE Online. Possibilities are endless, really.

I’ll add more as I think of it.

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lol

Y’all expecting triple-A features from a game that’s being worked on by like 4 people. We’re talking a game whose map has clear signs of AI generation. We’ll be lucky if just the basic extraction component is functional and optimized enough to run at a stable 30 FPS without melting an RTX 4080.

You think there’s a possibility for this to have Planetside 2-style epic battles? How? CCP has fired most of their staff over the past few years.