Vanguard better not be an extraction/battle royale shooter

lol, why bother making a shitty FPS game that no one wants to play then? If they’re not going to bother trying to make it at all comparable to other popular FPS games, why try? It’s just a waste of money. No one is going to play “just a basic extraction game that’s optimized to run at 30fps”. I would sooner waste my time in Apex or COD Warzone than do that.

It’s a cash grab, duh. Wait until they start selling Vanguard packs in their store and you’ll understand.

There are already excellent extraction shooters on the market. CCP is simply trying to capitalize on the craze before it goes away. Just like with other meme trends like NFTs and crypto, they’re trying to hop up from the crowd and yell “hey, we’re doing it too!” but are always a day late and a dollar short.

I think the only way they’ll be able to pull this off is if they somehow manage to handle the cheating problem that infests this genre and makes games like Tarkov virtually unplayable. But since the most reliable method of combating cheaters is active community server administration, and CCP’s system is going to be centralized, I just don’t see it happening.

If it makes you feel any better: We don’t have to agree for the conversation to matter. CCP are taking notes even if they’re not directly engaging with all the feedback, good or bad. My short experience with Vanguard so far has been very frustrating. Within two matches I got schwacked by a twitch streamer that was allegedly top of the killboard last playtest. :face_with_head_bandage:

I have been wondering about that myself. Some of the mechanics seem superfluous to the model, particularly the presence of both clone banks and drop boxes versus the concept of extraction. Extracting makes me think there will be some kind of equipment retention if you manage to get out alive like other extraction shooters…but clone banks dump you out with your loadout guns and all. If I had any note to leave on the model they have so far it’s this: Maybe consider ditching extraction entirely. If a warclone completes their objective why shouldn’t they just shunt out of their clone immediately? Really drive home the idea that death is meaningless and each life is utterly disposable.

That’d be a fun concept to explore economically and politically. Opens the doors for both dedicated loyalist outfits and freelance retainer companies.

Bit dangerous to put so much power in the hands of a player that might not be available at any given point managing corporate assets on a whim. How do you feel about a meritocratic system? A corp can set up a budget based on player adjusted parameters for mercs to call in fire support, vehicles, supplies, etc. Round just started? + 100,000 Creds. Capture or lose an objective? +/- 20,000 Creds. Corps can budget out how much they want to risk versus the performance of their mercs without necessarily being present. Corp A might prefer to financially abandon its team if it’s losing while Corp B might invest more. Make it so the mercs can pay for the stuff out of pocket too just for fun.

You know how DUST had those orbital strikes? It’d be cool if you could manually drop nanites, energy cells, or other important items from orbit. All kinds of neat stuff could be done with that. Supply ground troops with intel using sensor sweeps, deploy drones to carry out a strafing run, drop a clone bank onto the battlefield…

The return of Warclone Enclaves, eh? I like it.

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That sounds fine as an alternative. The main problem I see is how much inflation has gone on in EVE and how that will affect Vanguard if such a thing were added. There would have to be limits to the spending so Vanguard players aren’t just walking away with millions of credits without too much effort… you also have to worry about how to balance an economy in Vanguard if it were a thing. The idea that corporations are paying soldiers to fight for them on various battlefields for various types of resources is something that will have to be fleshed out.

You can’t really go wrong with any of this. The more interaction players in EVE have in Vanguard, the better, imo. That should be the whole point, otherwise they may as well just make a standalone game… but EVE is their baby and probably always will be, they have to do something to mix it up a bit, and incorporating many aspects of Vanguard into EVE is a good way to do that. There is a lot that can be gained from this type of testing, like someone else mentioned the whole station walking debacle, which I’m also kind of upset about. I would have enjoyed EVE a lot more than I have if there was some type of social interaction outside of just a text box and blowing stuff up. This could easily be a stepping stone to more of that appearing in EVE, until maybe they’re both fully integrated to each other, which I don’t see as an impossibility (if not a really big dream).

This is pretty much why I think Star Citizen had so much hype behind it, and why it continues to exist in the capacity that it does, because Star Citizen does a LOT of what people dream about in a space sim, and at least can show what the future of EVE might be should CCP try to pursue it. Like Rocket Hellfire said, EVE has become a bit stale and I think it needs to evolve in some more personal ways. The core game doesn’t necessarily have to change for all those diehard fans out there, but there can always be new and interesting stuff added in to it that isn’t just the same old thing with a different coat of paint.

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I really believe we might see something like planetside 2 lads.

Hundred billion ISK bet?

eahhhhhhh I ain’t that rich. I am a poor billionaire and Ill do you 100mil against my better judgement :joy:

If you care enough make a thread or keep some sort of note. :sweat_smile: I do hold my word. I will forget anyways.

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Quickly jumped into Vanguard again and I want to emphasize again how much I agree with OP. The hide and seek style of FPS shooters is just not appealing to me and I wish I had a darn LMG to lay down suppressing fire.

Long range firefights are just not possible atm.


Jove Space, could that be a region to start fresh?

I miss Dust, it was way better than this craptastic Tarkov-of-the-month knockoff.


I mean some people like the hide and seek game. I am just not one of them :sweat_smile:

I crave a general war type of deal. Tf2 and Planetside 2 both fulfill that niche.

You like fast pace type FPS run and gun? Likewise :+1:t2:


CCP should have made something similar to palword lol. then they can get nintendo on their ass lol.

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Does that have a lobby before each match starts?

don’t think so… i don’t get into survival games like ark.

Pssst. Hey. Kid. Yes, you. Over here.

You wanna buy some Chillets?

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I just started writing this up to consolidate the things I’ve been thinking about. There is so much potential with an EVE FPS game, it bothers me to think it’s going to be wasted on something so boring and generic like some goofy extraction game, so hopefully it doesn’t just stop there. Doesn’t really translate well from my notepad, but posting it anyway.

Core gameplay mechanics

  1. EVE Online Corporations design/create battlegroups of 50 people each. Creating a battlegroup costs upfront ISK and upkeep in the form of payment for hired players. Corps can create as many Battlegroups as they feel they can support, but only one battlegroup at a time will represent a Corp in battle.
  2. Unaffiliated Vanguard players that do not join a Corp battlegroup are in the “fill” pool of matchmaking, with rewards based on performance set by the Corporation.
  3. Battlegroups can apply/schedule for a mass-warfare game mode (ie. think MMO “Raids”) with capture points that reward resources for being held, these resources can be spent on various EVE Online gameplay mechanics introduced with Vanguard. These can include;
    • Research schematics
    • Materials used for manufacturing unique ships, other things
    • Resources used to expand Corp facilities with bonuses to battlegroups
    • Special actions during mass-warfare battles (Orbital Strikes, Vehicle production, supply drops)
  4. While not competing for resources in the mass-warfare game mode, Vanguard players can queue for other common types of games, like TDM, S&D, even Extraction and/or others.
    • TDM would/could play like it any other game.
    • S&D could be a mission-based, small group Corp vs Corp game mode to attack facilities built by other Corps to damage them and inhibit bonuses to battlegroups.
    • Extraction could also be a mission-based espionage mode of stealing resources, research, or other things from enemy Corp facilities. NPC AI become the bulk of the defense, but Corps can also respond by requesting defenders for it, or just fill with mercenary players.
  5. Rewards for Vanguard players comes in the from a steady paycheck paid out after an arbitrary length of time or mission success. This payment can be spent on;
    • Cosmetic enhancements for the player avatar in the form of clothes or weapon skins
    • Equipping gear for missions (weapons, armor, expendables)
    • Upgrades to your dormitory (see below)

Corporation interactions

  1. New skills introduced to EVE Online players that allow for building different types of facilities, including a “guild house” for Vanguard Corp members and a recruitment centers in hubs.
    • Some sort of base-building mechanic to claim planets and moons for different types of research and manufacturing. These can be attacked by enemy Corps in the aforementioned game modes.
    • “Guild houses” are a player hub for Vanguard Corp members that can be designed in various styles by EVE Online players, complete with dormitories for members to show off their achievements and have a place to queue for other types of game modes.
  2. The aforementioned resource gathering that can be used for new ships, upgrades, tradeables worth money, etc. etc.

Vanguard interactions

  1. Upon starting the game, players are sent to an instanced hub zone (100 players? 200 players? 1000 players?).
    • Players can visit shops to purchase equipment and cosmetics.
    • Visit recruitment stations created by EVE Corporations to hire players.
    • Visit various immersive locations to meet, chat or group with other players (bars? gardens? other EVE related things?)
    • Access “Guild Houses” created by EVE Corps that house a number of similar facilities, including player housing.
    • Perhaps even allow unaffiliated players to purchase their own apartments in these cities/stations.
    • Mission boards where players can queue for the various game modes to start playing.
  2. Potentially allow your EVE Online avatar to visit and play in Vanguard?

Also posted this on reddit;

I imagine the mass warfare “raid” would play out something like;

A drop pod with a Corp battlegroup lands on the battlefield somewhere and acts as the spawn beacon. As many Corps as want to participate/compete for the resources can apply and send their own ground team, which could end up being something like 50v50v50v50v50… on and on, until some arbitrary limit is hit since I doubt it could increase indefinitely. Each capture point rewards ticking resources, but only a limited supply are available at each point, meaning eventually each group will exhaust the easy resources and will have to move on to another fight. Each resource can have varying degrees of importance, meaning some will draw more attention than others (forcing immediate fights over those spots). As the resources start disappearing over time, the battle closes in on the few remaining spots and will continue indefinitely until players retreat (ie. quit playing) or the resources are finally exhausted. When the “raid” finally closes, everyone is awarded for their participation; salary from the Corp, or in other ways that I have yet to think of.

There should be some class-based equipment in the in-game stores, especially Medic items to keep players on the field, and then other things so everyone is not just running around as a Medic. Spawn timers can be something like 2-3 minutes, more or less, representing another wave of bulk reinforcements that can then be ferried in ways (supply drops, requested vehicles) to the front, but also lending to the importance of teamwork and sufficient support units in your battlegroups (while also giving a short break to the action for defending players).

You could even go as far as to make these planets (and battles) visible in the EVE Universe, and forcing Corporations to send their ships there to launch their Vanguard drop pods with special ships, which would, in turn, create hot spots of activity as they defend their assets (more “fun” space battles). Other support ships that could be made can also provide the different types of battlefield support options (like the Orbital strike, or supply drops for the troops). Something like this might end up being pretty expensive in the long run as everyone loses their ships in battle, but then again, there’s plenty of money to go around in EVE and inflation needs to be curbed anyway.

Ideally, you’d want these battles to last several hours, but not too many should be going on at any one time since the resources need to be relatively scarce (this would have to be determined by how many people are actively playing Vanguard and the necessity of keeping those players interested in the game). EVE Online could schedule these battles at various times, something like (these resources were finally discovered on this [random] planet), and giving people enough time to decide whether or not they want to participate and prepare for it when the battle launches. This would also promote multiple battlegroups and allow more players to have fun in these mass warfare battles.

As for the smaller Corporations that cannot hope to compete against the larger, richer, Corporations that have more money than god and can afford to lose massive amounts of ships, those would be people that launch a lot of the S&D/Extraction missions looking to steal resources from everyone else. These would be small team game modes, like your typical 3 person squad in extraction/br, and then maybe 5v5 or 6v6 for S&D, which could play out like your typical sweaty camper game with other objectives.

I imagine an Extraction game playing out like;

Some Corp sends a small squad to another Corps player-built facility (basically a queue from a mission board, the mission being posted by the attacking EVE Corp), but aren’t initially detected until combat starts with some of the AI defenders (requiring some stealth or other types of gameplay mechanics to avoid detection). Should they be discovered in some way, this would send a notice to the Corp being assaulted and they now have the option to send in their own team to try and stop the players attacking them. This could also trigger a notice to other Corps (maybe some sort of espionage mechanic to keep an eye on this sort of thing) that could then let them send in their extraction teams, too. Only one team can capture those resources (thereby playing out as your typical BR game). This would open up a lot of cool mechanics for stealth play that then evolves into something greater should it go awry. Once the mission has ended, the Corp that got attacked has a grace period where they aren’t eligible to be attacked again for some time.


You could join the q&a tomorrow to get more insights into vanguard

These people are so out of touch. All they’re doing right now is gushing over how “pretty” the game looks… like that is going to sell it to people. Minecraft is one of the best selling games of all time… Battlebit has practically destroyed Battlefield by itself. Arguably no one cares what the game looks like as long as it’s fun, and they’re not saying anything about what is supposed to make the game fun.