Please get rid of skill implants

This, exactly this.

I don’t PVP. (well, much. and not on my main), but I do like ships blowing up. (preferably not mine :wink: ) Because the burn is part of the engine which is Eve.

Mine, build, sell, destroy.

With any one of those going away, the engine stalls.

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Very well, I’ll play along. Only way I’d agree to this is if they keep the same attribute numbers we start with now ( it’s what, 17 straight down before you remap, I think? ) and then add 5 points to each attribute ( total 22 each attribute ) so everyone has the benefit of the imps removed. This means those with +5’s lose nothing and those without gain. Then accels can boost from there.

Funny I was thinking a bit higher than that.
2250 sp/h base speed with 3 boosters for sale in place of implants with speed boosts of:
270 sp/h
360 sp/h
450 sp/h
Each would last 3 days before biology skill.
These would use a separate booster slot from the event boosters.

There are some serious considerations before training implants can be removed.

First, what happens to all the existing implants, including those installed, stored in hangers, on markets and contracts? Do they get magically converted to boosters, or re-imbursed? And at what value?

Next, CCP would need to add boosters to the ESI so that skill plans can make use of them (currently I don’t believe this works).

What about the LP stores? Will the ‘new’ boosters be sold in place of the existing implants? Will these drop like the current event boosters? Will they be manufactured items like other drugs?

And lastly the slippery slope argument that if these implants are removed, why not remove ALL implants?

Personally I would just be fine if they removed the remapping of attributes from the game and left implants where they are…

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How does remapping stop you from pvping, since that is the reason being given for implant removal?

Remapping has other issues. Namely related to alt proliferation and new players. Because an alt doesn’t have to be capable initially you can remap to maximise training while new players have to spend time training all maps initially because they need to use the character.

Get rid of alts, leave remapping. Take a bite out of bots.

Steve holds an opinion, and that proves that the CSM members don’t represent the majority of the playerbase?

What?

His opinion is his opinion. That’s it. All it proves is that he’s got an opinion.

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Some good points made, Wanda Fayne.

The existing learning implants could be converted in some of the ones with other effects than character attributes like armor bonus and all that. Value would need to be about the one they get sold for in the LP stores.

In the LP store you could offer different implants or boosters to represent the different effectiveness of each implant. Although I doubt the lower end ones would be very popular. “Accelerators” as the boosters affecting character attributes are being called, improve every attribute equally at the moment. You could add accelerators that boost the attribute the implant beforehand did. Now you could add those to your skill plan. Making it a bit more complex, yay! ^^

Because the implants giving you a bonus on ship stats can give you the extra edge of fitting space to fly the crazy fit you came up with. They usually don’t hinder you to undock. If you plug those in, you usually do it with the option in mind that they can be lost along with the ship you needed/wanted them for.
But you’re right there is not really an argument for the other ones - like industry implants - after that.

Another slippery slope I would be actually willing to go down is not to remove all implants but to remove all attributes. Or simply hide them away and ignore them.
I believe this has even been asked about at (last?) fanfest. Character attributes don’t really add any kind of gameplay, just some complexity. You could argue that people willing to spend time into making skill plans and stuff is a niche in Eve but is it actually fun? I think that should be the main objective of a video game: fun.
And personally I can say that learning implants haven’t added much fun for me yet.

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Learning implants are not the only expensive option. Use some of the Concord 6% hardwires for that edge - and you’ll not be getting into PvP anytime soon. A set of Industry or Exploration hardwires for the 5% are around 1bil. Comparative to the cost of a set of learning 5’s. I’ll say it again - it’s all or nothing for implants.

It’s a myth that Learning Implants are a barrier to PvP. People that are risk adverse will be regardless of their SP per hour.

This is not the first time this proposal has floated. And its the same tired arguments that have not worked previously.

Except for as has been stated previously, most hardwiring implants benefit PVP fits.
Scanning implants are often used by roaming fleets to get a quick drop on there targets, the need the extra scanning strength to minimize the number of scan attempts so the target doesn’t have the chance to see the combat probes.

Learning implants, ability scores, and remaps bring nothing beneficial to the game.

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You guys are making good points and asking good questions, but don’t scope creep this too much. Getting rid of all implants is a wide reaching change. It makes sense to address the attribute game systems together, but don’t derail this topic into other implants. Make a new post for that.

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They are trying to derail it to other implants in order to kill the idea of removing skill implants.
The same old scare tactics get brought up every time this topic gets discussed. Yet the arguments aren’t actually alike, CCP themselves have agreed with the argument, but are scared of the market fallout should they remove implants.
Replacing them with boosters just makes it even worse in a way because you have to constantly grind ISK, and you have to constantly log in to use them, so can’t just plug +5’s in before a 2 month trip somewhere you won’t be able to EVE and let them run. So in the long run it works out far more expensive, which presents an even higher barrier to anyone but the 1% of EVE.

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And again I’ld like to disagree with that.
Every implant except learning implants have an effect on activities in the game. Apart from some industry focused implants they help doing things in space. Learning implants don’t do that.
I’m not saying that someone with an expensive refinery implant is more risk averse than someone with learning implants, but I can speak for myself. And I have seen myself hesitate to undock into a situation I very likely get podded when I weren’t able to swap into an empty clone. Not so much for the ISK, but because of the hassle (mainly time) it would be to get new implants.

That’s indeed a good point against swapping skill implants to skill accellarators. If I look at it that way I’m not very convinced anymore that would be a good idea. Accellarators would favor people playing more actively - or at least who login rather regulary .
I always liked that exactly that isn’t necessary to make progress in Eve. :thinking:

Funny idea: What if you could put the consumption of an accellarator in your skill queue? Of course this would require having the according skill booster in the station hanger where the character is docked.

I don’t see having more players enter the game as a bad thing. It means more resources are consumed, more active pilots and ships destroyed, which leads to greater profits for everyone.

It also ensures that the LP market for implants/accelerators won’t crash which is the fear CCP had from the start.

You have a decent point about the extended trip, they could offer an extended accelerator that lasts considerably longer with diminished effects.

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I’m absolutely fine with long duration accelerators as replacements for current attribute implants.

And I don’t see any real reason for there to be any diminishing returns with duration either. get +5 for a week, or get it for a year at 52 times the cost. Sounds fine to me.

You’d want a variety of them like a day, a week, a month, a quarter, 6 months, a year. and the market value would vary because of demand. Because not everyone would want to fork out for a year at once, so there may be a premium on them (or they may be at a slight reduction, because someone bought before they checked if it would sell :wink: )

If they’re split into the various attributes, rather than a flat bonus, that also introduces decisions to make. I’m in two minds about that.

Just something I thought I should be entirely clear on:

My opinion is already fairly fleshed out on this, as it’s something which keeps coming up in discussions with the community.

While the topic has occasionally come up with CCP, it’s not as something on the roadmap. So no promises when/if something might happen to them.

Everything I’ve said here is purely my opinion (which other people may or may not share)

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I am not trying to derail anything…

But yeah if we are to get rid of Skill Implants…get rid of them all…they are not needed.

And i say this cause one of th fundamentals of EvE is reward vs risk…
And another is not being dumb.
And learning from your mistakes…

So really I like my implants all of them,
But you want to limit my options of whether or not I want to fly with whatever in my clones head?
I have alts that run around with +5’s and or expensive hardwires.
I have alts that run around with just +3’s and no hardwires
I have alts that run around all the time with expensive +2’s that have bonuses and some expensive hardwires.
And i have alts that have run around and train without ever having single implant in them ever.

Forcing a removal of implants just because ‘you’ (the you meaning who ever) has a systematic issue with ‘your’ attribute or min/max gameplay is the same attitude as those I have run across that say train this or that or log in cause i tell you to or get kicked or whatever…

You do not pay my subs, you do not buy my plex, you do not play MY game for me!!

So why are people trying to limit my options?
Why are you trying to tell me how to play my game?
or how to spend my money?

@CSM

Really before you touch Implants at all…or even continue think of it.
FIX the LOYALTY POINT STORES FIRST…
They are old and need a serious revamp, if CCP can introduce a new one for RW they can easily modify and change up the required items and stuff to get the reward.

One last note, what about the specialty implants?
Nomads, Slaves, Halos, etc…they all require the regular Skill implant to create them from Pirate LP stores…
^^ bet a lot of people did not or are not thinking about that one either, get rid of the skill implants and you kill those off at the same time…idiots.

That’s not really a difficult problem, the cost of the pirate implant sets would increase a bit for each implant to displace the cost of no longer requiring a learning implant to get.

Quick, simple and effective.

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I think this works in terms of the learning implants, but I don’t think it would work for the other slots, given that the effects can’t be removed (or written over). Given how often I’m ripping out implants and swapping in new ones for different fits and scenarios, I think having the option of implants is useful.

I didn’t realize this was such a polarizing issue.