That depth you talk about is actually alts and vets. It provides a barrier to a legit new players first year or two.
It’s an outdated system and should be removed.
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That barrier can now be circumvented with Injectors, especially on new chars where a single Injector can literally open a dozen new things to fly… So, I don’t think it’s outdated. Injectors pretty much updated that concept.
So your suggestion to a barrier is for a new player to spend a couple of hundred dollars on plex, sell them on the market likely getting ripped off due to lack of Eve understanding and poor trade mechanics…
Wtf!
That’s a terrible proposal.
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I like the booster idea just because it would annoy skill farmers.
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Nice Spin, really.
My suggestion is to keep the status quo where you can either plan ahead (or not), wait, farm or buy ISK to buy injectors or a combination of all of that.
Removing the attributes doesn’t help with the barrier, as the barrier would still exist. Removing attributes would make it easier to understand and cheaper to maintain, sure, but that’s about it. I don’t think it’s particularly difficult or expensive to begin with though.
The planning ahead is only available for vets & alts though, because new players have to train a variety of skills which need different skill maps, otherwise they aren’t able to to anything for 6 months as they train nothing but ship or support skills, and then the other way around.
This results in a poor experience for new players.
And the only way around this is to buy plex to then buy injectors since new players are not going to be farming 100’s of millions of isk a day like the null farmers do.
Which results in an equally poor experience.
So yes, Attributes are poor gameplay, they don’t actually create planning in the way people claim they do, what they do is create skill training online alts who do nothing for ages.
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Only for those that do seek instant gratification imho.
Which they don’t really need though. Alpha injectors are a thing and they are reasonable cheap for what they do. In the end, the experience doesn’t get any better if you remove the attributes because new players will still train slowly (just at a slightly faster speed). Removing attributes doesn’t remove the shitty newbie experience because having to train 3 minutes less in order to fly your first cruiser is not going to do that.
Only injectors can fix that.
Removing attributes means that they aren’t training at a sub optimal rate in order to actually be able to do anything in the first six months (& knowing it because everyone will tell them so). You keep inventing arguments in order to debate against them rather than actually addressing what I am saying.
And how does removing attributes help with that? It doesn’t. They will still train for a long time, just at a slightly faster speed. Instead of 6 months of waiting, now the noob has to wait only 5 months and 14 days!
That’s a very thin line to argue from.
No, it doesn’t take that long to be able to do anything.
The 6 months is because of attributes and the attribute maps you need for support skills & ship/gunnery skills being opposite remaps. Which means that if you are going to train optimally you have to remap for 1, train all the skills in one you need, then remap for the other.
Which means either you are telling new players to do nothing for 6 months while they do this, or you are telling them to train off map to get both sides. While alts of Vets can happily do this because the Vet has other characters to play with.
Removing attributes stops this situation occurring meaning that the new player can train for whatever takes their fancy and be able to do something in that field in a couple of weeks with no sub optimal training.
Or you could just tell them to skill for ship X in a week and remap afterwards. Sorry, but if you use “I tell newbs dumb things” as an excuse for removing attributes, then I don’t think you should tell me to stop inventing things.
No sane person will tell a noob to remap for X months while sitting their doing nothing. You will always tell them to skill for a specific thing first. That’s what the big nullblocs do anyway. Maybe it’s the reason why people should start in Null because HS players are only giving stupid advice like that?
I do agree that there is an SP barrier to entry which any newb has to overcome. However, removing attributes doesn’t fix that because they only reduce the time spent on that. Injectors can fix that, very easily.
So you are instead going to tell them to use their remaps (which are once a year) on a single week of training? wtf?
Are you even reading what you are writing at this point.
I didn’t even mention remaps dude. You can do fine without any remap because the default remap isn’t that bad (it’s 5 days of difference on a million SP). You only lose 87.800 SP in 7 days if you don’t remap at all which can be easily made up for with 2 alpha injectors.
Yes, I am reading your statements and I do think you use newbies as an excuse to get rid of something that you just don’t like. You just exxagerate a problem that isn’t even that big to begin with and not the root of the bad newbie experience.
So you want them to be training sub optimally while a vet can use perfect remaps on alts just because it’s “only 25% difference in time”…
Seriously?
Yes, for a complete newbie that doesn’t even know what he wants to do, that is perfectly appropriate. It’s only temporary too. As I said, Injectors can fix that quite easily.
It’s quite a difference to train less fast while playing or to train a bit faster while not playing at all.
And yes, we had these dumbo advices back when I started. That was with learning attributes. I too was told to “train learning skills first” which I did, just not fully. I could fly lv 4’s solo in 2 months and earned enough to plex my account at that time. If I would have sticked to “learning skills”, I couldn’t have done that and I wouldn’t be playing now.
Similarly, if you tell a newb to “use your remap to train category X first”, you are doing him a disservice. If you really want to help him, buy him an Alpha Injector instead. Then he does not have to worry about the misplaced newbie advices you share here and can train his ship first, then worry about proper planning later.
Highly optimized skill planning is something for Vet’s and Alt’s and a part of the gameplay that you would remove by removing attributes. I am against that and I think injectors are a terrific help for newbies, even though I don’t like the concept of Injectors in general.
You disagree on that, which is fine - but I do not believe that it’s such a big issue and that it kills of newbies. The SP barrier does, but since your proposal wouldn’t fix that either, I see no need for action besides convenience (which is OK to want too, I just don’t think we need more convenience either).
@Nevyn_Auscent ,
Really dude, your argument is piled so high with crap i would need a Backhoe to move it and a dump truck.
TEACH!!!
GawdDamn hard is it to take a new bro aside and get him to save his remaps for his first year,
TEACH the newbro how to be self sufficient, not reliant on others.
Thats how you do it, not removing something from the game…criminy.
Lol… 9 log ins every couple of days/weeks is too much work for you?
New players do need a bit of instant gratification. Once you are into the game gratification can be way more delayed but really new players do need it.
Imho, that’s what injectors are for. Skilling a day faster in the first week won’t do that. An alpha injector can be used to instantly unlock a cruisers I believe. If that’s not enough instant gratification, then 500 more SP per hour won’t be instant gratification either.
umm… no. Injectors are not really for new players – they are more for people like me who just want to speed up training. Would be different story if injector was 40M isk, but at over 140M isk forget new players actually using them. It tends to be alts of vets that are injected directly into some skills to make them useful from get go.