Which intern mean Titan alts are far more valuable, it would also mean more isk flows, more players log in, LP stores have value no matter what corporation they are for.
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Absolutely not. I’m tired of making EvE nothing more than WOW in space. I go way back. I remember training learning skills, setting an alarm to get up to swap skills because there was no skill que, saving forever to buy ‘expensive implants’, having permanent attributes. Everything CCP has done to simplify the game results in EvE losing it’s charm. Don’t want to PvP in +5’s - then don’t. No one is forcing you to. Want to train faster - well then spend a bit more on your clone. God, you have injectors, jump clones, free pods, you even get accelerators for doing events - next thing you’re going to ask for is to have all your items deposited in your home station when you get blown up. Eve is about risk vs reward - want the reward of training faster, then you risk losing an expensive pod. Besides it is trivially easy to JC into ‘cheep’ POD and PvP to your heart’s content.
My alt lived in a wh for 3 years, I made the decision that +3’s were all I wanted to keep in my head, if you live in null or a wh, having enough ISK to keep multiple sets of implants should not be an issue.
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Uphill, both ways, in the snow, with a handful of hot gravel for breakfast.
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I was once told, simply because something has always been doesn’t mean it’s the best way to be.
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And yet, we loved that game, and it’s why many of us are still here.
Something that CCP understood when they created EvE. The possibility of loss adds value to something. Striving in EvE to get something, means more because unlike most other games, you can lose that which you obtained. If you remove that possibility of loss, or diminish it, you diminish EvE……
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The question should be is there any logical reason to remove the implants. Do they harm game play ? Do they give people a huge game breaking benefit? Is it such a huge issue or bothersome or a chore ?
In my opinion it is neither of those. No learning implants are even extremely expensive. Not saying a +5 is cheap bit its not a un obtainable amount. Do they however provide certain gameplay advantages that certain people wanna use yes. Sometimes you wanna train a little faster because you wanna sell some SP for plex. Are the pods hilarious to kill yes. Also that huge uhooh and laugh when you realise you got a expensive pod in a squishy ship in null sec pvp.
In my opinion even learning speed implants fall in that category. So honestly I see no reason. No reason at all to remove them.
CCP needs to use there what looks like increasingly exremely limited resources to a whole lot of other issues with this game.
Please read again:
I did not say, they “add nothing”. I said they don’t add to acvite gameplay.
That’s so ignorant that it’s funny again. 
Really Makavi, I see your points but how you express yourself makes me think “well, ■■■■ you too.” If you want to convince someone about something try to be polite next time. I just can’t take you serious if you can’t show at least a little respect for other peoples opinions.
Agreed. If any, a potential change to learning implants seems to fit only low on the priority list.
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I am fine with this as long as I get to keep what I already have or am given permanent implants to replace what I haven’t lost implants in years and there is no reason to make me pay more because people want to change things.
CCP still hasn’t reimbursed my costs for clone upgrades since 2006 either.
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The main issue is that some implants can remain in the head for years.
Even the +5. Actually, especially the +5s.
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I lost my implants twice within a week, so I calculated the expected value of wearing implants. (The first time I got podded was my fault, but the second was nearly unavoidable)
At these prices:
large skill injector: 771,983,497.90 isk (for 400,000 skill points)
a set of 1s: 3,695,141.36 isk
a set of 2s: 22,920,477.51 isk
a set of 3s: 47,296,209.33 isk
a set of 4s: 107,861,311.08 isk
a set of 5s: 587,918,417.72 isk
It’s a dumb bet to pvp in implants unless your risk of getting podded per hour of pvp is at most:
1s: 4.4% (once per 23ish hours)
2s: 1.4% (once per 71ish hours)
3s: 1% (once per 100 hours)
4s: .06% (once per 167ish hours)
5s: .01% (once per 1000 hours)
You would gain skills faster by putting 173,696.29, 347,392.57, 521,088.86, 694,785.15, or 868,481.44 isk (respectively) per hour of pvp into your large skill injector fund.
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Alternatively, a set of +5 implants generates an extra 450 SP/hr
So that would calculate to 3,942,000 SP per year at 500,000 SP per injector that equates to 7.884 skill injectors.
That could make a year long accelerator worth 6.087 billion isk.
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Aside from the SP farming aspect though, having to re-consume accelerators any more than once a year would be ■■■■■■■ annoying.
You think it’ fine now because you don’t have to do it - but wait until you have to micro-manage that every 3-6 months. I have 3 accounts and I use MCT, so that’s up to 9 characters. Having to adjust those regularly? No thanks. ■■■■ that noise.
I’d err in favor of making accelerators permanent until you unplug them, the same as implants are now - that way they are the same, but they don’t disappear when you die and you can get rid of the attribute system.
This would also screw up the pvp implant sets. For example, I want high-grades for PVP and they count as trainers as well…now all of a sudden I have to buy both separately? wtf?
Not only that but people love a shiny podkill. Pod deaths would be worth half as much as they used to be.
So here’s the perfect alternative: Make it so low, mid, and high-grades have an acceleration component that never expires - but you also lose them if you die. Oh wait, that’s the current system.
It’s not guaranteed that pod deaths would be worth less.
Currently, people are betting millions that they won’t die for no pvp benefits. They don’t want to bet more on pvp implants. They’re already betting more than makes economic sense. If you remove skill implants, they won’t be betting anything, so they’ll be more likely to bet on pvp implants. The more people that buy pvp implants, the more they’ll be seen as needed to be competitive, and that will encourage even more people to buy pvp implants.
^^ I don’t think you understand how the EVE economy works.
If the drop rate doesn’t change but the function of those implants is cut in half, one of two things will happen: (1) You’ll be paying the same or more for a set of implants that’s functionally less good than before, or (2) demand will remain the same or go down because of the nerf, in which case pod kills are less valuable (but still prohibitively expensive for pvp since I doubt a set of high-grade would drop below 1b).
Neither of those is a good outcome. This change is a lose-lose scenario.
At this point the whole system around attributes appears problematic to me.
I agree with the overall premise. Attributes are kinda dumb. SP should just accrue at a steady rate.
As it stands, you can Remap and Implant for maximum gain on Mining skills or whatever. And then use an Extractor to suck up all that SP and Inject it into Gunnery or something instead. If your Attributes are leaning away from optimal Gunnery training, then why can you Inject the same amount of SP as anything else? Shouldn’t the Injection be diminished b/c your Attributes aren’t optimal for that skillset?
Or…
Just get rid of the idea of Attributes, and make everything train at the same rate. Then Injection makes perfect sense, b/c it’s just adding more SP quickly. And then nobody needs to bother with Remaps or Attribute modifier implants. You can still have Snakes and Slaves and whatever else, but they won’t alter your Charisma or Perception.
It’s time we stop pretending that we’re playing space D&D, and just focus on shooting stuff.
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There is a DR on Injectors that reduce the SP you get out of it… No, you can’t just do that unless you have very low SP, at which point it becomes trivial to be balanced around.
Please don’t. The choices you make lock you into a single optimal path for a year and if you derive from proper planning, you will have subpar results. Planning ahead still makes sense. This should be kept, even though it’s use dimished since Injectors.
Which only enforces my point. They aren’t limiting the tiers to how many SP you can invest in any particular category. They’re just flat out limiting SP in general. If you have 5m in Mining, or 5m in PI, or 5m in PvP… you’re limited the same either way. So why not just treat SP as a general point accumulation, and drop the D&D Character Attributes pretense.
Again, why? They made a big deal out of limiting how often you could Clone Jump… Until people pointed out how asinine the limit was. And then they came up with new skills that reduced the cooldown, and people continued to emphasize how ridiculous the limitation was. So they finally gave us immediate and repeated Jumping while inside a Citadel. Admittedly, a step to encourage Citadel use.
They did the same thing with Cap Ships and their Jump mechanics. Limits on how often you can Jump… Unless you fly just the right ships, and train just the right skills, and then those hard locked timers get a bit more flaky.
Making someone plan out the next YEAR of their training is kinda bonkers. It dissuades a lot of new players when they discover that you’re expected to make YEARS of plans before you even start playing. It’s like the job interview when they say “Where do you see yourself in 5 years?” … “Uhh, training for a Jump Freighter, maybe?”
Your first point is immediately deflated by the second. Injectors remove the planning b/c you can get instant gratification on your Skill Queue. The only planning you’re doing is how the game should play itself during your offline hours. Or in a lot of people’s cases, how to maximize SP accumulation on a sacrificial Toon, so you can hoover their SP and give it to someone else for more instant gratification.
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Well, you think SP limiting is bad, I think it is good, regardless of injectors.
Well, why not? It adds depth to the game and places certain restrictions on the game. Just because these restrictions were alleviated to a degree doesn’t mean they don’t make any sense or don’t add anything to the game. For me, the idea to have an optimised plan to get the best bang for your buck is a good thing and I like that there is room for this kind of personalization.
It produces different outcomes and gives room for individuals. I like that. JumpCloning is a tricky topic - yes, you can switch your clones like underwear IF you are at the same location. I would say that’s a convenience thing designed to alleviate the ISK you lose when you have to fight (i.e. a good thing). It doesn’t remove proper planning for Jumping around new eden.
You don’t have too though. You only have to do that when you want the absolute best result. Your example is kinda lacking. An appropriate answer would be something like: In a jumpfreighter! Maybe I’ll even get there in 4 years!
I agree that Injectors removed the value of proper planning and I consider that a bad thing. However, Injecting comes at an ever increasing cost. My main hasn’t used a single Injector ever, simply because he was at 85+ Mil SP when they were introduced. For that char, proper planning is deeply important because with SP that high, it’s terribly inefficient to Inject anything.
So, I really don’t think that diminished value of SP as a concept justifies it’s complete removal. It provides depth to character progress. I think that’s good.