Yes. To be precise, that 43T ISK is the difference between the ISK on accounts going inactive and those being reactivated. So almost certainly more than 43T went inactive. For example, it could have been:
Reactivated accounts: 20T ISK
Deactivated accounts: 63T ISK
ISK delta: -43T ISK
Those numbers are made up of course and we don’t know exactly the breakdown, but it is possible to have a positive ISK delta if a bunch of rich players came back to the game in a month.
NickyYo!! Good to see you
OK. Take the Machariel, back around the same time it was up around 900 mil - Today, it is half that.
Nightmare, Vindicator - Both over 1 bil - Now less than half that.
Tengu hull (like the other T3’s), used to be around 250 mil, now ~160 mil.
Caracal (used to fly them a lot) were around 16, now 12…
Even the humble Drake which has recently seen a bit of a comeback sells for less than it did in its hey day of Drakes online…
And hasn’t the not so humble Soyito done a great job. A titan that cost 90 to 100 bil is now 75, a super that was 23 to 25 now 17.
I still have my first ever fully researched BPO (Caracal) - Build costs haven’t varied a great deal but profit margin has. I put this down to a lot more people putting them out, keeping profits down for all. The same goes for pretty much everything on the market, hence the reason things produced by players are cheaper, relatively, than they were years ago.
The Delta would not vary due to whether an account is subbed or not.
There is no such thing as an “inactive” account anymore - Alpha or Omega, you’re technically still “active” as far as what’s in your wallet goes.
Some guy who has trillions of isk lets his sub lapse, his isk will still show up in any metrics CCP gather.
The only way to “deactivate” an account is to biomass it, so they ain’t comin back…
They regard an account that hasn’t been logged into in X days (60 or 90 I think it is based on how the delta moved) as inactive and remove it’s isk from the current pool. They confirmed that they would have a metric for inactive accounts still when they did the alpha introduction but not exactly what that metric would be.
Obviously that isk can then re-enter the pool if they log in again.
So that would mean any isk in game value that CCP releases as being “actively used in game” could be out by 2 or 3 months, depending on how many trillionaires don’t log in for summer or winter or during exams or deployment or any number of other reasons.
Rich as player logs out for 3 months at the end of a metrics period, his isk is counted in the next 2 or 3 totals (we guess because although CCP confirmed these accounts would be classed as “inactive” after X amount of time we don’t know what that time period is ( 60 or 90 days is a pretty broad guess when it comes to nerfing things due to “everyone” having too much isk).
Same guy logs in (as an Alpha) for a few hours after 3 months so his isk never leaves the pool.
And why would how the Delta has moved be the basis for whether an account is inactive or not? Sorry but that just makes no sense at all. Either an account is “inactive” after X amount of time or it isn’t, how the Delta moves should not come into it - Unless CCP want to use those figures as a measure of balance (nerfing income streams).
NB; The change I think you are referring to was to the EULA, minimum time for removal of “inactive” accounts was reduced from 6 months to 90 days. So it seems any account not logged into for 90 days can be deleted from CCP’s servers (not that they are likely to do this), which would remove any isk and assets but it says nothing about leaving an account in place but removing the isk from the game…
I’d like to see something from CCP that says how the Delta and perma afk (inactive isk) isk is handled. (I’ve looked and can’t find anything, you obviously did or wouldn’t be posting it)
No, the change I’m talking about was then alpha accounts were introduced. You can see a massive spike in the total isk graph that correlates. You can then see where the graph starts to significantly drop off again, which gives some idea of how long the activity period they are looking at is.
CCP will not be changing their metric based on the isk delta. It’s just that they haven’t announced it so we can only infer from the isk delta what their time period is.
CCP also have never used ‘There is too much isk in the game’ as a reason to nerf anything, they have referred to specific faucets & sinks as being out of balance.
Isk delta (alongside velocity of isk) however is relevant when talking about things like inflation.
For the comment look a couple of months before alpha’s in the Monthly forum thread, I questioned it and someone from CCP replied, can’t remember if it was quant or someone else, that they would have a measure of if an account was active or inactive.
It’s obvious they aren’t counting all the isk ever made & on an account in the game though, or the spike when alpha clones were introduced would have been huge.
You’re right CCP have never used overall isk in game to justify nerfs, they just use anomalous figures (1% of 1% make above the average, so everyone gets nerfed [last fighter nerfs]).
That statement has also led to the fallacy that those who rat with carriers are the reason plex prices are so high.
Looking back over “Money Supply” [total isk] it seems there was indeed a substantial increase in isk in November, followed by total isk returning to pre-Alpha levels by March. Since then “total isk” steadily risen to an all new high in June with July and August seeing a slight decrease.
This would indicate, IF CCP is removing isk from “inactive” accounts someone is making a hell of a lot of isk because over the last 9 months (since Alpha release) “total isk” has continued to increase…
You might want to look at this being the most recent report.
It’s like I read the reports and was only addressing the single aspect of them being the alpha accounts. Seriously.
Nevyn Auscent
It’s like I read the reports and was only addressing the single aspect of them being the alpha accounts. Seriously.
What you said was;
You can see a massive spike in the total isk graph that correlates. You can then see where the graph starts to significantly drop off again, which gives some idea of how long the activity period they are looking at is.
Which by the graphs shows, “total isk” has increased, so gives no indication inactive isk is being removed from "total isk…
Seriously, if you’re going to use graphs to show something, make sure the graph shows what you state it does.
Your right, how dare I take an obvious inference from the graph using a clear trend with a large but not massive spike that can only be attributed to accounts coming ‘active’ again, then a dramatic fall off that times appropriately despite increased earning occurring per the isks & faucets to surmise that they are in fact not counting every single account ever made in the numbers. Obviously I have no clue what I’m talking about.
I.E. seriously, stop trolling, it’s pretty obvious now that you are just trying to pick a fight over this.
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
CCP Quant/Phantom.
How will active Isk Delta be tracked with Alpha clones? Since in theory every account ever made suddenly will become active again.
What metric will you use to separate out such accounts.Good question, we’ll have to re-define active ISK. My current definition is something along the lines of: If an account has not been logged into for 30 days, it is inactive. This will present some discontinuity between the pre- and post-CSA economic reports, but lets see how this goes.
30 days it is it seems which makes sense with the data.
I imagine though that ISK in corporate wallets never goes inactive, even if the players controlling that corporation do. That makes interpretation of the magnitude of the delta to the total supply problematic. Although I think CCP Quant maybe told us the ratio of ISK in player wallet to corporation wallet and something could then be inferred.
Uh, Player & Corp isk is on the monthly report. Right there on one of the graphs. It’s like Players 4 : Corps 1 ratio if I remember right, maybe 3:1
Yup you are right. And there is no change when Quant redefined ‘inactive’ confirming that indeed corporate ISK is not removed with the ISK delta.
Seems like all is in order then.
I think a good litmus test is the following:
-Ask yourself, if someone where to give you enough money for 1month of EVE sub, would you spend it on EVE or something else.
I wonder what amount of ISK would be consider as “not expensive” or fair price for PLEX?
For me that is based on how many hours per day I log in for. If the isk I make in X amount of time is not enough to sub an account, it goes alpha.
So far 7 of 11 have gone alpha… I expect at least 2 more to go over the next few months as PVE is just not something i enjoy so having to spend more time doing it just ain’t happenin.
NB; I’ve already extracted a few characters, which is why 4 accounts are still active. Short term gain for CCP - long term loss of active accounts…
The average account number was somewhere around 1.5 last year I think it was (Twitter stuff). This says most people are running a single account for that number you are running to be offset. I also vaguely remember someone analysing CCP’s financial statements and working out that Plexed accounts were maybe 50k or so. Significant, but not the larger portion of CCP’s income.
So people like you trimming accounts down is not going to have major shock waves on CCP.
For eve to work best all things need to exist within certain equilibrium,plex is single item that does not…by design.
The problem is plex and what it offers both ways.I never looked it as good thing and never will i cant say i know how and what need fixing but if CCP is to make it less op would go long way.
Since it is consumable i would make it perishable
a) for 30 days you can use it for game time or isk after that you hear donkey sound thru your headset and empty vault.
b) it degrade over time it is 500 nu(isance) plex for 30 days less every day after that.
That should take care of hoarding god item ccp provided and normalize market to be pure/clean transaction per value instead current monkeying thats going on.
This has come up a few times, but I’m not sure that morally this would be a good move by CCP.
PLEX is effectively a promise by CCP. We pay cash now and CCP promise that we can access an additional product or service at a later date.
The transaction isn’t 100% complete until the PLEX has been used and CCP have provided something further for it in exchange.
If CCP changed it and put a time limit on that promise, for an item paid for directly with RL money, that would be very on the nose in my view.
Just my 0.02 and no more valid than your view. Just a counter opinion on that specific issue.
