Pochven Must Burn!

I like how you conveniently ignore what I said about how there is no slavery among the KYBERNAUTS to make some silly straw man argument about the Triglavians. Yes, SOME of the Triglavian forces fired on transport ships. They didn’t explain why. I presume they had a valid reason, while you presume they did so out of pure, murderous malice. The truth is doubtlessly somewhere in between–but it doesn’t fit either one of our narratives, so let’s just ignore that, shall we?

No living person has control over the circumstances that will shape her life. Lives are snuffed out by war, famine, disaster, accident, and malice. They are shaped by unexpected opportunities, limited by unforeseen complications, prolonged by serendipitous circumstance, shortened by sudden catastrophe. The only guarantee a baseliner has in her life is that it will ineluctably end.

This is truth at the macro level no less than it is on the micro level. For billions of years, evolution has selected winners and losers. Inferior species fall away and new species replace them. That which lives, dies. That which is, shall no longer be. Entropy is the ultimate regulation of all things. And so it is for the human species, no different. Given enough time, the human species will die and be replaced by something that some random chance of biology determines to be superior–because the rule of all creation is adapt or die.

The civilians whose worlds were conquered by the Triglavians have been given the precious opportunity to surpass the confines of their evolution to ascend into something greater. They were never in control of their own destiny. Had they been left alone in Empire space, they doubtlessly would have continued on with lives of pure irrelevance and deaths in abject obscurity. But not anymore. Now they have the opportunity that precious few in New Eden will have–the opportunity to ascend into a new state of being beyond human limitations. The Triglavians merge within themselves the human, the constructed, and the Other: and in so doing, they transcend humanity to become something greater than the sum of its parts. Zorya Triglav offers to shape the base clay of humanity into fine sculpture fit to adorn the next billion years of creation.

Don’t you dare pity Katya or her family. They are blessed beyond measure and will still walk the path of exaltation while the Matari empire crumbles to dust.

You know nothing about me at all, Arrendis Culome. You have never spoken to me for any other purpose than to cast black flames-- all heat, and no light. Much like your posting.

Then you admit to collaboration. It was perhaps your only choice if you wanted to stay on your planet. I can entirely understand, and sympathize with you. I’m sure it was a hard decision. But you made the choice.

If I and mine were to collaborate with the Gallente against the State, I’m sure we would be treated the same as you are now being treated. As enemies. Especially were I to fly in fleets against my erstwhile allies.

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Except I didn’t. The point about the Trigs was establishing their proclivities, as a foundation for the orders they might well give you. Which you will obey.

I don’t, and I haven’t said that I do. So who’s the one trotting out straw men here, amidst all that blathering about people being forced into bioadaptation really being ‘given precious opportunities’?

Maybe they would have continued with lives of ‘pure irrelevance’… but those lives wouldn’t have been irrelevant to them. And for all your lies, you know less about Zorya Triglav’s actual intentions than you know what color socks I’m wearing right now.

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Your going to get shot at either way, better to have the ability to shoot back

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This is pretty much accurate. Besides EDENCOM and their affiliates, you have to worry about rogue drones, Sleepers, Drifters, Assorted pirates… honestly given the size of my clanhome I can still fit a decent amount of supplies in a non-dedicated hauler.

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Either use prisoners of war as bargaining chips as intended, or give the enemy an honourable death on the grid. Picking them up for this dishonourable little puppet show only serves to demonstrate the degree of childish desperation that makes the whole lot of you irredeemable.

The man who drinks is still accountable for his actions when he sobers up.

This is a logic error or a purposeful misinterpretation of the facts, because the Triglavians and Kybernauts are the invading force which is holding occupied systems against EDENCOM forces and loyal capsuleers.

There is no legitimate government in Pochven beyond the CONCORD signatories.

There are no systems within Pochven that can be classified as sovereign territory of the Triglavian Collective.

The fate of all traitors.

If she has not yet taken the tea after failing to stand and fight alongside the navy during the invasions and executing prisoners like some Black Eagle goon, the only criticism that is going to have any meaningful impact is a firing squad.

No citizen of the State should be following orders from traitors who assisted abyssal space barbarians in perpetrating an unprovoked invasion of four major powers that has harmed no people more than your own.

Do not sully the history of the war of secession by comparing it to this war. The circumstances are not even remotely similar.

They do not possess authority, and therefore possess no ability to practice law or diplomacy.

War is the only normal relationship one can have with an enemy who does not understand the concept of peace.

People die in war. That is the price that must be paid whilst waging one. That is a small price to pay compared to the alternative.

They chose to acquire those stars at the expense of other peoples through force. Predominantly, I remind you, at the expense of our people. And when pressed between the choice of defending my people, standing by idly and letting it happen or betraying my people and acting against their interests, the sole honourable choice was to stand up in their defence. I am saddened that you were not able to see that. You will have to live with your role in the deaths and mutation of all Caldari affected by this war.

Normal relations and mutual understanding have already been achieved. There is nothing further to discuss.

One should not seek too much in the actions of something that is purely and simply a threat. One should seek to destroy it before it destroys more in it’s path. The Triglavians, Sansha’s Nation and the Drifters are all such existential threats, and continue to cement that perception with each passing day. The only question, as you have already ascertained, is that of urgency.

If your clan’s leaders decided that the best option was to break from their tribe, and stay in what has become what can only be described as a wound carved into the cluster, whilst the lack of sunlight and the bioadaptation of the planets and it’s inhabitants irreversibly tainted nature and culture alike, they have failed themselves and the people who look up to them for leadership. You should focus on getting those capable of understanding what is happening around them out of there rather than abetting insanity.

On this, you and I agree.

On the contrary. This unexpected crisis has caused centuries-old enemies to co-operate against a common threat. This co-operation will continue until the enemy’s ability to wage war, their fleets, their armies and their industry, are broken. For most of us, this is a simple, uncomplicated endeavour, because the safety of our families, friends and fellow citizens depends upon it. The only ones here who have something to reflect upon are those capsuleers who betrayed New Eden in order to enable an otherwise managable enemy.

She is a traitor who aided the Triglavian Collective against the CONCORD signatories, the State included. As far as any citizens of those CONCORD signatories should be concerned, yes, she is an enemy. The fact that you are unable to see that and attempt to redeem her character is deeply concerning.

Your people’s ancestors fought for their freedom during the Great Rebellion precisely because they refused to let others destroy their culture and tell them how to live. My people did exactly the same and when we had to choose between Caldari Prime or the survival and autarchy of our culture, we made the right choice irrespective of the hardships it brought. If the sacrifices your ancestors made for their heritage and autonomy mean so little to you, then stay on your planet and be erased by your masters, but stop pretending that your clan did not make the wrong decision solely because it was the path of least resistance.

There is absolutely nothing worse than when someone voluntarily chooses to abandon the ways of their ancestors. Even Sansha drones have the excuse of being forced to do what they do by means of implants.

Your path is now effectively whatever path the Triglavians decide for you, and I don’t see that fish making it onto the galactic market once the entire biosphere of your world has been adapted to their specifications.

This is the way.

This is called treason.

As someone who spent the better part of October to February on evacuating Caldari refugees, I can confirm that they did.

I wish that was an option but five thousand people screaming in terror as the hull is breached is not something anyone could ever forget, and the only logical thing to do is to combat the threat responsible until it ceases to be able to repeat the incident.

What you conveniently left out is that in contrast to other species, the peoples of New Eden are a part of something greater than themselves. Their societies. From their parents and their teachers, each child learns the ways of their people, becomes a part of their society, contributes to it, and eventually passes their role and responsibilities on to the next generation once it is ready. That is the true body. Giving someone the choice between death or joining the flow is effectively like asking a cell whether it wants to die or become a cancer. In either case, the cell as it was ceases to be. The only thing the body can do is cut it’s losses and remedy the cause. Since the cause only understands violence, that is also the only solution.

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Personally, I would be hesitant to lecture anyone else about freedom, were I the CEO of a corporation that works to supply materiel to Caldari militia pilots—allies of the same Amarr that still hold trillion of our people in bondage.

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Would the State survive on it’s own were the Caldari-Amarr alliance to fall apart? Or would warhawks in the Federation smell blood and call their Republic lackeys to wipe out a threat to “cluster-wide peace and stability”?

It’s a shame many Minmatar can’t see the similarities between our people. What besides the threat of the Federation and Empire keeps the Republic and the State from cooperating? Because we all know were the Federation to cease to exist, the Amarr would wipe up the Republic and come for us Caldari. It would be in our people’s best interest to set aside differences and build diplomatic and economic bridges. Which is, actually, a project I intend to work on.

That’s not relevant to the discussion and the presented problem.

I do not care about EDENCOM, it is a clear attempt by CONCORD to circumvent their own regulations and violate the Yulai Accords. My statement stands true. No Federal invader will be tolerated in State systems. Wirashoda is a State system. Triglavians and Feds are not the same.

I have disobeyed disagreeable orders issued by Ms. Jackal in the past. Putting down Federal thugs was anything but, and recording the proceedings was an order that came from Stribog’s director of diplomacy. The fallout of that command is hers to deal with.

Hardly limited to this incident. The ease with which the Gallente default to genocidal threats and actions has been a known fact for hundreds of years. I will agree that the circumstances are dissimilar, the Gallente stance is not.

Because that is what their continued existence hinged upon, there was no other viable alternative. The invasions were a move of desperation. I am immensely saddened by the fact that our State suffered most of all, but the harsh truth is that they were not targeted disproportionally. Our Navy was unprepared for them and EDENCOM aligned capsuleers abandoned our systems. I do not know what caused our Navy to underperform as it did, but I can only hope that this will strengthen our resolve and fortify our doctrines so that a far more insidious foe will not break our military. A foe that you know fully well would not stop at 16 systems. I know you cannot see me as anything but a traitor, but I assure you, the welfare of our people is my sole concern.

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Would the Rrepublic support an imperalist move by the Federation, were they not needed to offset the Empire? I’ve spoken in the past about the commonalities between the history of the State and the Minmatar people. And I think that a bi-polar balance of power is inherently unstable and dangerous. New Eden would be far better served with a Federation || Empire || Republic / State alignment, where neither of the isolationist powers is beholden to one of the expansionists.

That said, I’m often told that the Caldari tend to take the viewpoint of ‘butt out of our affairs, outsider’. It’s good advice for people not of our Tribe who seek to natter on about how one of our Clans chooses to live, too.

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It is obvious to me that pride has been the Caldari’ downfall.
Secrecy and pride led to the State away from Federal aid from the beginning and now pride brings you into the jaws of something infernal.
It may have been a much different situation if Navy Officers had seconded with Caldari battle groups under the EDENCOM flag don’t you think?
But we will never know because Caldari will keep their inky secrets and their pride clutched close to their chests as they sink into whatever hell will accommodate them.

@Remilia_Malitia Stop pretending you are still Caldari or a State citizen doing their will by killing Federation people. You forfeited that right when you decided to betray them, thrusting sixteen systems into that Hellscape.

If the welfare of your people were, you would of stood against the Triglavian invasion, like you claim the Federation does to the State. How can this logic be different?

Just face it you, you are a manic who revels in death and destruction, who even if not ordered to carry out an execution, would of freely done it out of murderous glee.

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I don’t know that is the case Clementine. Clearly Remilia speaks her mind but I can say that I have held a number of reasonable conversations with her.

If you are looking for traitors this Foucault character should be the obvious pick to put at the top of your list, although I’m not even sure of that…

Clearly Lt. Colonel Simon val Foucault does not see the execution of Federal Citizenry as a zealous overstep on Ramilia’s part.

Extirpation has been graphically defined for us.

Service to my people is not a right, it is a duty. I would not expect someone like you to understand such a thing.

The Federation is a far more insidious and malevolent force than the Collective would be even if they behaved exactly as EDENCOM propagandists would have you believe. I again would not expect someone like you to understand, but what I am doing is far more substantial and impactful than anything I could have done as a combat pilot serving under EDENCOM.
After all, I am no soldier.

Were the fates of those men and women left to my discretion, I’d have had them executed as well. I take no joy in murder, I simply do what must be done for the greater good. Making the cluster a better place, one trigger pull at a time.
I really, sincerely wish I could be presented with a less bloody alternative.

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You had one, as did Ms. Jackal. It was tossed out in favor of this bloody spectacle of yours that you were all too happy to take part in. You may still hold your SuuVee citizenship by some extended loophole in the Caldari State’s own bureaucracy, and I fully believe you think you’re doing what you do for your ‘home’s’ sake… when you’re only creating more enemies. Luckily for others of your organization, this atrocity is squarely on yourself and Ms. Jackal, and those few warclones. So my ire will remain with you and Ms. Jackal and those warclones directly employed by Stribog, but you still set this precedent. Now you will watch more people die, and claim that it is your enemies that are the monsters.

No, Remilia… no. We all are monsters here, some are just worse than others, and I’d say you’re well on the path to becoming one of the worse.

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I’m sure the CEPs of the State would think otherwise when their systems and people are still at ransom to the Collective.

You are right but not how you think. The negative impact you have and will continue to cause will only further the gap between you and your humanity.

No you’re not, you are murderer. No matter how much you dress it up as “doing your duty” or “I was ordered to”.

As Ms. Brezia has said above, there has been plenty, but yet again you decide to burn more of what little bridges you have left.

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Was such an alternative being offered when a fleet of battleships burned in a suicidal charge with no regard for the lives of those aboard, all so that their lunatic, deathless pilots could feel the joy of destroying an enemy structure with all souls aboard?

I am not the one that sealed the fates of those people, and don’t you even pretend for a moment that you gave a single damn about any of them until it was your name being spoken as their captain. It’s been two whole weeks since that battle. Have their fates even crossed your mind since then? Where was the outrage? The grief? The cries for genocidal vengeance?

You killed those people, Ms. Lafleur, traded their lives for those of your enemies. Do not hate me for making you come face to face with the consequences of your bloodlust.

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Every single day. But I do not publicise it unless there is a clear message (Like this) that needs to be stated.

My outrage is for the spectacle you and your boss have created by sending a very obvious provocation to Commander Adams.

People die, I know that, this is war. I know that blood is on my hands too. But I can not forgive the way you have treated my or any of the other crew, robbing them of their free will to die with dignity.

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Yes, in fact, one was offered.

Negotiations were ongoing between EM and Stribog when that charge happened. They were only called off by Stribog Clade the day after.

During these negotiations, I had specifically inquired from the Stribog representative if they want to rush a deal through before the final timer of the Azbel, and I was prepared to pull an overnighter at the table for that to happen.

Their answer was no.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Head Diplomat
Electus Matari

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