Pochven Must Burn!

[Claudia_Osyn]

@Jennifer_Maxwell

Strange to be on a mission of mercy yet be kitted out for dealing death

Your going to get shot at either way, better to have the ability to shoot back

[Katya_Hilitari]

This is pretty much accurate. Besides EDENCOM and their affiliates, you have to worry about rogue drones, Sleepers, Drifters, Assorted pirates… honestly given the size of my clanhome I can still fit a decent amount of supplies in a non-dedicated hauler.

[Miran_Tereven]

@Clementine_Lafleur

[The feed switches to a much higher definition, unlabeled one, showing the interior of a vacant warehouse. Remilia Malitia can be seen striding into frame with an almost childlike jump in her step, turning around and facing the camera before beckoning someone off-frame over. A dropsuit-clad soldier bearing the livery of Stribog Clade joins in, pushing along a large metallic chest suspended over a hovering platform. At Remilia’s gesture, he tips it over, dumping a pile of federal dogtags onto the floor. The camera abruptly turns to the left to showcase a brightly lit area where a large translucent plastic tarp has been laid out, a single blindfolded woman kneeling down handcuffed, wearing the typical uniform of a NADSC crew member. A few more of the dropsuit wearing guards can be seen in the background, as well as the edge of the tag pile, still persisting at the edge of the feed. The woman identified herself by name, rank, commanding capsuleer and vessel before Remilia steps forwards and executes her with an ion pistol shot to the head. A guard then rips her dogtags off, tosses them into the pile and drags the body off-frame before another captive is brought forth.

The procedure is repeated again and again for about two hours, during which 217 people are executed. After the last corpse is dragged away, Remilia hands her pistol over to a guard and stands at the center of the feed and taking a theatrical bow, “Happy Federation Day!”

The video ends.]

Either use prisoners of war as bargaining chips as intended, or give the enemy an honourable death on the grid. Picking them up for this dishonourable little puppet show only serves to demonstrate the degree of childish desperation that makes the whole lot of you irredeemable.

@Clyde_ElectraGlide

Well, how very surprised I am that someone who swears allegiance to the Triglavian State- oh, sorry, Caldari Colle- no, wait, that one’s not right either. Or is it? Forgive me, I may have had a little too many spirits from the festivities today.

The man who drinks is still accountable for his actions when he sobers up.

@Remilia_Malitia

All of those people were invading enemy combatants guilty of terrorism. Federal invaders will not be tolerated in State systems, whether they are woven into Pochven or not.

This is a logic error or a purposeful misinterpretation of the facts, because the Triglavians and Kybernauts are the invading force which is holding occupied systems against EDENCOM forces and loyal capsuleers.

@Galm_Eskola-Fae

The truth is if you’re so angry at these images then EDENCOM should be doing everything they can to normalize relations with the legitimate governments of Pochven rather that continuing to undermine any attempts to achieve some sort of stabilization or normalcy in the region under the new regime.

There is no legitimate government in Pochven beyond the CONCORD signatories.

@Sahara_Jackal

These people were nothing more than terrorists who invaded the sovereign territory of the Triglavian Collective.

There are no systems within Pochven that can be classified as sovereign territory of the Triglavian Collective.

@Sahara_Jackal

These brave souls gave the last full measure of human devotion in the service of their friends, families, and allies, assisting our station gunner right to the bitter end.

The fate of all traitors.

@Sahara_Jackal

Do not criticize Ms. Malitia for her emotional response in performing the task. She, like the rest of us in Stribog Clade, just witnessed the deaths of brave men and women on our ships and stations, who gave their lives to defend us. She was understandably upset. I have ordered her to take leave to recuperate and seek counseling to work through her grief. But I will not reprimand her merely because she has authentic emotions.

If she has not yet taken the tea after failing to stand and fight alongside the navy during the invasions and executing prisoners like some Black Eagle goon, the only criticism that is going to have any meaningful impact is a firing squad.

@Remilia_Malitia

Because I was ordered to record it.

No citizen of the State should be following orders from traitors who assisted abyssal space barbarians in perpetrating an unprovoked invasion of four major powers that has harmed no people more than your own.

@Remilia_Malitia

Luc Duvailer could not have said it better himself.

Do not sully the history of the war of secession by comparing it to this war. The circumstances are not even remotely similar.

@Clementine_Lafleur

Your form of lawful is as twisted as your form of diplomacy and self righteousness.

They do not possess authority, and therefore possess no ability to practice law or diplomacy.

@Remilia_Malitia

I have been advocating for de-escalation and normalization of relations between the Collective and the Empires for months now.

War is the only normal relationship one can have with an enemy who does not understand the concept of peace.

@Remilia_Malitia

I present to you the human price you so often ignore, and your reaction is to enable the death of more.

People die in war. That is the price that must be paid whilst waging one. That is a small price to pay compared to the alternative.

@Remilia_Malitia

The Collective required specific stars in a specific location, all while their survival as a people hinged on it.

They chose to acquire those stars at the expense of other peoples through force. Predominantly, I remind you, at the expense of our people. And when pressed between the choice of defending my people, standing by idly and letting it happen or betraying my people and acting against their interests, the sole honourable choice was to stand up in their defence. I am saddened that you were not able to see that. You will have to live with your role in the deaths and mutation of all Caldari affected by this war.

@Remilia_Malitia

It is in the best interest of all to now normalize relations and seek a mutual understanding. Nothing good will come from further escalations in hostilities.

Normal relations and mutual understanding have already been achieved. There is nothing further to discuss.

@Snowflake_Tem

Maybe. Yet consider is Clade activity in Empire space more or less heinous than Sancha’s Nation? - temporal immediacy aside.

One should not seek too much in the actions of something that is purely and simply a threat. One should seek to destroy it before it destroys more in it’s path. The Triglavians, Sansha’s Nation and the Drifters are all such existential threats, and continue to cement that perception with each passing day. The only question, as you have already ascertained, is that of urgency.

@Katya_Hilitari

I’m a Kybernaut. When the Republic pulled out after the evacuations finished, my clan remained on Krirald III because we didn’t want to abandon our home. It wasn’t a crowded planet even before the evacuations either, and not entirely self sufficient. We don’t have a lot of manufacturing infrastructure.

I joined to ensure the trade needed to keep my clan, my homeworld, alive, continued. I’m not condoning what happened, and anyone who remotely knows me knows that I’m angry it happened.

But I’m glad to know that you consider my cargo holds of medical supplies and industrial components terrorism. Means I know who to not undock around.

If your clan’s leaders decided that the best option was to break from their tribe, and stay in what has become what can only be described as a wound carved into the cluster, whilst the lack of sunlight and the bioadaptation of the planets and it’s inhabitants irreversibly tainted nature and culture alike, they have failed themselves and the people who look up to them for leadership. You should focus on getting those capable of understanding what is happening around them out of there rather than abetting insanity.

@Snowflake_Tem

I’ll assert that a clean death is better than living-death.

On this, you and I agree.

@Commander_Volk

Don’t give into tribalism and hate because that’s what they want us to do.

On the contrary. This unexpected crisis has caused centuries-old enemies to co-operate against a common threat. This co-operation will continue until the enemy’s ability to wage war, their fleets, their armies and their industry, are broken. For most of us, this is a simple, uncomplicated endeavour, because the safety of our families, friends and fellow citizens depends upon it. The only ones here who have something to reflect upon are those capsuleers who betrayed New Eden in order to enable an otherwise managable enemy.

@Diana_Kim

But noo, here goes a soldier who just personally executes some people, in a rather professional and efficient way. And not just random people who suffer from the bloodthirsty capsuleer carnage, but those who have actually committed crimes, those who actually deserved it.

She is a traitor who aided the Triglavian Collective against the CONCORD signatories, the State included. As far as any citizens of those CONCORD signatories should be concerned, yes, she is an enemy. The fact that you are unable to see that and attempt to redeem her character is deeply concerning.

@Katya_Hilitari

Oh, I’m protecting them, But I like my, oh, what was you called it, ‘shitty planet’ too much to leave. My clan didn’t fight for our freedom just to cut and run.

Your people’s ancestors fought for their freedom during the Great Rebellion precisely because they refused to let others destroy their culture and tell them how to live. My people did exactly the same and when we had to choose between Caldari Prime or the survival and autarchy of our culture, we made the right choice irrespective of the hardships it brought. If the sacrifices your ancestors made for their heritage and autonomy mean so little to you, then stay on your planet and be erased by your masters, but stop pretending that your clan did not make the wrong decision solely because it was the path of least resistance.

@Sahara_Jackal

She and her family are safe. They live and walk the path of Glorification as Aspirant Narodnya. They are a thousand times better off than the baseliners of Empire space.

There is absolutely nothing worse than when someone voluntarily chooses to abandon the ways of their ancestors. Even Sansha drones have the excuse of being forced to do what they do by means of implants.

@Katya_Hilitari

My ancestors fought for the freedom to choose our own paths. And ours is on this planet.

Your path is now effectively whatever path the Triglavians decide for you, and I don’t see that fish making it onto the galactic market once the entire biosphere of your world has been adapted to their specifications.

@Mizhara_Del_thul

Better dead than living on one’s knees. A place does not make a people. The people do. Surrender for a place and the people are no less dead than if they fought. Extract what can be extracted, and mourn those who can’t be. Those who surrendered… pity them.

This is the way.

@Jennifer_Maxwell

You’re right. Assisting an occupying force defend against the people intent on taking back their rightful space isn’t collaboration. It’s just… well, I don’t know what it would be if not collaboration, but surely it must be something else.

This is called treason.

@Arrendis

And yet, the Triglavians did shoot down unarmed transports full of people who wanted to leave. There’s no reason to think they won’t do it again.

As someone who spent the better part of October to February on evacuating Caldari refugees, I can confirm that they did.

@Sahara_Jackal

let’s just ignore that, shall we?

I wish that was an option but five thousand people screaming in terror as the hull is breached is not something anyone could ever forget, and the only logical thing to do is to combat the threat responsible until it ceases to be able to repeat the incident.

@Sahara_Jackal

This is truth at the macro level no less than it is on the micro level. For billions of years, evolution has selected winners and losers. Inferior species fall away and new species replace them. That which lives, dies. That which is, shall no longer be. Entropy is the ultimate regulation of all things. And so it is for the human species, no different. Given enough time, the human species will die and be replaced by something that some random chance of biology determines to be superior–because the rule of all creation is adapt or die.

What you conveniently left out is that in contrast to other species, the peoples of New Eden are a part of something greater than themselves. Their societies. From their parents and their teachers, each child learns the ways of their people, becomes a part of their society, contributes to it, and eventually passes their role and responsibilities on to the next generation once it is ready. That is the true body. Giving someone the choice between death or joining the flow is effectively like asking a cell whether it wants to die or become a cancer. In either case, the cell as it was ceases to be. The only thing the body can do is cut it’s losses and remedy the cause. Since the cause only understands violence, that is also the only solution.

[Arrendis]

Personally, I would be hesitant to lecture anyone else about freedom, were I the CEO of a corporation that works to supply materiel to Caldari militia pilots—allies of the same Amarr that still hold trillion of our people in bondage.

[Jennifer_Maxwell]

Would the State survive on it’s own were the Caldari-Amarr alliance to fall apart? Or would warhawks in the Federation smell blood and call their Republic lackeys to wipe out a threat to “cluster-wide peace and stability”?

It’s a shame many Minmatar can’t see the similarities between our people. What besides the threat of the Federation and Empire keeps the Republic and the State from cooperating? Because we all know were the Federation to cease to exist, the Amarr would wipe up the Republic and come for us Caldari. It would be in our people’s best interest to set aside differences and build diplomatic and economic bridges. Which is, actually, a project I intend to work on.

[Diana_Kim]

@Miran_Tereven

She is a traitor who aided the Triglavian Collective against the CONCORD signatories, the State included. As far as any citizens of those CONCORD signatories should be concerned, yes, she is an enemy. The fact that you are unable to see that and attempt to redeem her character is deeply concerning.

That’s not relevant to the discussion and the presented problem.

[Remilia_Malitia]

@Miran_Tereven

This is a logic error or a purposeful misinterpretation of the facts, because the Triglavians and Kybernauts are the invading force which is holding occupied systems against EDENCOM forces and loyal capsuleers.

I do not care about EDENCOM, it is a clear attempt by CONCORD to circumvent their own regulations and violate the Yulai Accords. My statement stands true. No Federal invader will be tolerated in State systems. Wirashoda is a State system. Triglavians and Feds are not the same.

@Miran_Tereven

No citizen of the State should be following orders from traitors who assisted abyssal space barbarians in perpetrating an unprovoked invasion of four major powers that has harmed no people more than your own.

I have disobeyed disagreeable orders issued by Ms. Jackal in the past. Putting down Federal thugs was anything but, and recording the proceedings was an order that came from Stribog’s director of diplomacy. The fallout of that command is hers to deal with.

@Miran_Tereven

Do not sully the history of the war of secession by comparing it to this war. The circumstances are not even remotely similar.

Hardly limited to this incident. The ease with which the Gallente default to genocidal threats and actions has been a known fact for hundreds of years. I will agree that the circumstances are dissimilar, the Gallente stance is not.

@Miran_Tereven

They chose to acquire those stars at the expense of other peoples through force. Predominantly, I remind you, at the expense of our people. And when pressed between the choice of defending my people, standing by idly and letting it happen or betraying my people and acting against their interests, the sole honourable choice was to stand up in their defence. I am saddened that you were not able to see that. You will have to live with your role in the deaths and mutation of all Caldari affected by this war.

Because that is what their continued existence hinged upon, there was no other viable alternative. The invasions were a move of desperation. I am immensely saddened by the fact that our State suffered most of all, but the harsh truth is that they were not targeted disproportionally. Our Navy was unprepared for them and EDENCOM aligned capsuleers abandoned our systems. I do not know what caused our Navy to underperform as it did, but I can only hope that this will strengthen our resolve and fortify our doctrines so that a far more insidious foe will not break our military. A foe that you know fully well would not stop at 16 systems. I know you cannot see me as anything but a traitor, but I assure you, the welfare of our people is my sole concern.

[Arrendis]

@Jennifer_Maxwell

Would the State survive on it’s own were the Caldari-Amarr alliance to fall apart?

Would the Rrepublic support an imperalist move by the Federation, were they not needed to offset the Empire? I’ve spoken in the past about the commonalities between the history of the State and the Minmatar people. And I think that a bi-polar balance of power is inherently unstable and dangerous. New Eden would be far better served with a Federation || Empire || Republic / State alignment, where neither of the isolationist powers is beholden to one of the expansionists.

That said, I’m often told that the Caldari tend to take the viewpoint of ‘butt out of our affairs, outsider’. It’s good advice for people not of our Tribe who seek to natter on about how one of our Clans chooses to live, too.

[Snowflake_Tem]

@Remilia_Malitia

Our Navy was unprepared for them and EDENCOM aligned capsuleers abandoned our systems. I do not know what caused our Navy to underperform as it did

It is obvious to me that pride has been the Caldari’ downfall.
Secrecy and pride led to the State away from Federal aid from the beginning and now pride brings you into the jaws of something infernal.
It may have been a much different situation if Navy Officers had seconded with Caldari battle groups under the EDENCOM flag don’t you think?
But we will never know because Caldari will keep their inky secrets and their pride clutched close to their chests as they sink into whatever hell will accommodate them.

[Clementine_Lafleur]

@Remilia_Malitia Stop pretending you are still Caldari or a State citizen doing their will by killing Federation people. You forfeited that right when you decided to betray them, thrusting sixteen systems into that Hellscape.

@Remilia_Malitia

the welfare of our people is my sole concern.

If the welfare of your people were, you would of stood against the Triglavian invasion, like you claim the Federation does to the State. How can this logic be different?

Just face it you, you are a manic who revels in death and destruction, who even if not ordered to carry out an execution, would of freely done it out of murderous glee.

[Snowflake_Tem]

@Clementine_Lafleur

would of freely done it out of murderous glee

I don’t know that is the case Clementine. Clearly Remilia speaks her mind but I can say that I have held a number of reasonable conversations with her.

If you are looking for traitors this Foucault character should be the obvious pick to put at the top of your list, although I’m not even sure of that…

Clearly Lt. Colonel Simon val Foucault does not see the execution of Federal Citizenry as a zealous overstep on Ramilia’s part.

Extirpation has been graphically defined for us.

[Remilia_Malitia]

@Clementine_Lafleur

Stop pretending you are still Caldari or a State citizen doing their will by killing Federation people. You forfeited that right when you decided to betray them, thrusting sixteen systems into that Hellscape.

Service to my people is not a right, it is a duty. I would not expect someone like you to understand such a thing.

@Clementine_Lafleur

If the welfare of your people were, you would of stood against the Triglavian invasion, like you claim the Federation does to the State. How can this logic be different?

The Federation is a far more insidious and malevolent force than the Collective would be even if they behaved exactly as EDENCOM propagandists would have you believe. I again would not expect someone like you to understand, but what I am doing is far more substantial and impactful than anything I could have done as a combat pilot serving under EDENCOM.
After all, I am no soldier.

@Clementine_Lafleur

Just face it you, you are a manic who revels in death and destruction, who even if not ordered to carry out an execution, would of freely done it out of murderous glee.

Were the fates of those men and women left to my discretion, I’d have had them executed as well. I take no joy in murder, I simply do what must be done for the greater good. Making the cluster a better place, one trigger pull at a time.
I really, sincerely wish I could be presented with a less bloody alternative.

[Lauralite_Anne_Brezia]

@Remilia_Malitia

I really, sincerely wish I could be presented with a less bloody alternative.

You had one, as did Ms. Jackal. It was tossed out in favor of this bloody spectacle of yours that you were all too happy to take part in. You may still hold your SuuVee citizenship by some extended loophole in the Caldari State’s own bureaucracy, and I fully believe you think you’re doing what you do for your ‘home’s’ sake… when you’re only creating more enemies. Luckily for others of your organization, this atrocity is squarely on yourself and Ms. Jackal, and those few warclones. So my ire will remain with you and Ms. Jackal and those warclones directly employed by Stribog, but you still set this precedent. Now you will watch more people die, and claim that it is your enemies that are the monsters.

No, Remilia… no. We all are monsters here, some are just worse than others, and I’d say you’re well on the path to becoming one of the worse.

[Clementine_Lafleur]

@Remilia_Malitia

Service to my people is not a right, it is a duty. I would not expect someone like you to understand such a thing.

I’m sure the CEPs of the State would think otherwise when their systems and people are still at ransom to the Collective.

@Remilia_Malitia

what I am doing is far more substantial and impactful than anything I could have done as a combat pilot serving under EDENCOM.

You are right but not how you think. The negative impact you have and will continue to cause will only further the gap between you and your humanity.

@Remilia_Malitia

I am no soldier

No you’re not, you are murderer. No matter how much you dress it up as “doing your duty” or “I was ordered to”.

@Remilia_Malitia

I really, sincerely wish I could be presented with a less bloody alternative.

As Ms. Brezia has said above, there has been plenty, but yet again you decide to burn more of what little bridges you have left.

[Remilia_Malitia]

@Lauralite_Anne_Brezia

You had one, as did Ms. Jackal. It was tossed out in favor of this bloody spectacle of yours that you were all too happy to take part in.

@Clementine_Lafleur

As Ms. Brezia has said above, there has been plenty, but yet again you decide to burn more of what little bridges you have left.

Was such an alternative being offered when a fleet of battleships burned in a suicidal charge with no regard for the lives of those aboard, all so that their lunatic, deathless pilots could feel the joy of destroying an enemy structure with all souls aboard?

@Clementine_Lafleur

No you’re not, you are murderer. No matter how much you dress it up as “doing your duty” or “I was ordered to”.

I am not the one that sealed the fates of those people, and don’t you even pretend for a moment that you gave a single damn about any of them until it was your name being spoken as their captain. It’s been two whole weeks since that battle. Have their fates even crossed your mind since then? Where was the outrage? The grief? The cries for genocidal vengeance?

You killed those people, Ms. Lafleur, traded their lives for those of your enemies. Do not hate me for making you come face to face with the consequences of your bloodlust.

[Clementine_Lafleur]

@Remilia_Malitia

Have their fates even crossed your mind since then? Where was the outrage? The grief? The cries for genocidal vengeance?

Every single day. But I do not publicise it unless there is a clear message (Like this) that needs to be stated.

My outrage is for the spectacle you and your boss have created by sending a very obvious provocation to Commander Adams.

People die, I know that, this is war. I know that blood is on my hands too. But I can not forgive the way you have treated my or any of the other crew, robbing them of their free will to die with dignity.

[Elsebeth_Rhiannon]

@Remilia_Malitia

Was such an alternative being offered when a fleet of battleships burned in a suicidal charge with no regard for the lives of those aboard

Yes, in fact, one was offered.

Negotiations were ongoing between EM and Stribog when that charge happened. They were only called off by Stribog Clade the day after.

During these negotiations, I had specifically inquired from the Stribog representative if they want to rush a deal through before the final timer of the Azbel, and I was prepared to pull an overnighter at the table for that to happen.

Their answer was no.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Head Diplomat
Electus Matari

[Diana_Kim]

@Clementine_Lafleur

The negative impact you have and will continue to cause will only further the gap between you and your humanity.

It is highly hypocritical for someone who serves Federation to blame any other person in distancing from the humanity.

@Clementine_Lafleur

No you’re not, you are murderer.

And you are what? A judge, a tribunal, a prosecutor and an attorney in one person? Oh, and represend according to your gallentean ideals a democratic decision of admitting someone in being guilty after counting the majority of votes of one person?

Execution of criminals by a tribunal decision is not a murder, disregarding how much you’ll squeal the word.

@Remilia_Malitia

I am not the one that sealed the fates of those people, and don’t you even pretend for a moment that you gave a single damn about any of them until it was your name being spoken as their captain. It’s been two whole weeks since that battle. Have their fates even crossed your mind since then? Where was the outrage? The grief? The cries for genocidal vengeance?

You killed those people, Ms. Lafleur, traded their lives for those of your enemies. Do not hate me for making you come face to face with the consequences of your bloodlust.

Well, Ms. Malitia, technically, those who were still alive she didn’t kill.
On the other hand, yes, that operation that you’re talking about was example of criminal disregard to human life, it was an atrocity with degree of CODE pilots, murdering of own crewmembers. It’s just shameful and disgracing.

When we killed a kybernaut structure in Pochven, we didn’t lose a single ship.
And they sacrificed so many people just to wreck a piece of metal?

Amateurs, fanatics and incompetent fools.
Whomever made this “smart” decision to sacrifice a battleship fleet with all the crewmembers just to take down single structure - shall be court martialled.

It was a mistake our State joined the Edencom. They’re just keeping to disgrace us with their incompetence! I don’t want to associate with these lunatics who aren’t really better than demented CODE pilots.

[Remilia_Malitia]

@Clementine_Lafleur

People die, I know that, this is war. I know that blood is on my hands too. But I can not forgive the way you have treated my or any of the other crew, robbing them of their free will to die with dignity.

Then let’s drop the whole “you’re a manic murderer” narrative, shall we? Your concern isn’t with how scarlet I painted my floors, but the manner in which it was done? Which is, to say, quite gracefully and appropriately. No degradation, no suffering, only a swift, clean end.

@Diana_Kim

Well, Ms. Malitia, technically, those who were still alive she didn’t kill.

Of course, I was merely stating that she condemned them to death. At the moment she entered warp that day inbound to the structure, there was only one fate awaiting her crew.

[Remilia_Malitia]

The Wirashoda Azbel, of course. Was that an attempt at trading barbs? I am sure you can think of something better than that.