And I don’t think CODE is harassing and insulting. They are simply just quite efficient.
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Now CCP wants to police certain words? You guys need to get real and remember that words are Just words.
Keep yourselves busy making Eve all about PvP and leave the ■■■■ TALK to us. Mind your own biz… leave people alone and make some spaceships.
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The Oxford definition gives the option to assign both, positive and negative traits to every possible race. Racism can work both ways this way (as my teacher said to me, you are a positive-racist!) after assigning the most positive traits I could find to people from random nations and that is because it’s not universally used to belittle other races as inferior or the own race as universally superior (which is the usual use-case, but not the only one possible).
The UN definition does not leave this option. According to the UN, racism is only negative and can only be positive to the one that is trying to establish dominance which makes it negative again (by assigning the most positive traits to the dominant race is bad because it makes this race the dominant one that tries to achieve dominance). I.e. everyone is worse than X.
Also, social groups ← which aren’t even included in the oxford definition. Thereby expanding the definition to pretty much everyone, since everyone can have a social group that is targeted by harassment / violent action. Having social groups in there essentially says: everyone is racist.
With todays social acceptance, I could claim that, according to the UN, my gender is the one of the “Fedora-wearing-vaping-douchebag-that-clouds-your-favorite-sushibar-with-funny-smells-and-ruins-your-meal-thisway”, because that’s what I could do and I would be a minority in an instant and could rightfully play the racist card against you if you would dare to critize me, all thanks to “Social groups”.
Oxford doesn’t give you that option, which is a good thing.
You don’t consider that a vast difference?
CCP has made a mistake by adopting a highly ill defined set of terms. As bad as my english is, let me try to explain. (I’m really trying)
Firstly, I would rather see CCP adopt a zero tolerance policy in game concerning real life matters such as, political advocacy, stalking, etc. Where you can be an SJW or a KKK grand dragon outside of game, you cannot do so in game. You can still be KKK provided you do not try to inject your political or social philosophy into the game world itself. You can play the game and not interact with your ex and you should give each other space and not talk about them. Keep your real life in the real world and OUT OF EVE.
Even so, I would dissociate myself as a company from private discussion between individuals. It is up to them to monitor their own personal interactions and CCP cannot be seen as a moral arbitor in disagreements between individuals. If someone in Jita local says “I hate Amaar” lets attack them, so what, if someone says “I hate Europeans and white people” lets war dec their corp or report them to CCP, then ban them; they have brought their political philosophy into the game and nobody wants the game to become political. We play to enjoy and relax, not for a cause or your broken heart. If they have a discussion about their beliefs privately and are doing nothing more than talking with someone, then there is no advocacy or any abuse of the game and it is no concern of CCP or the game they provide. Don’t manipulate the game for your own ends.
The problem with the terms CCP has adopted, like ‘hate speech’, ‘sexism’ and ‘racism’ is that they are highly subjective and cannot be defined in any sensible way. No crimes are committed by thought, only by action. Read up on mens rea and actus rea to understand where I’m coming from. Marxism and racism are ideas, a revolution or a lynching are actions. They are two different things. This is a standard we can all be held to fairly no matter who we are. CCP should take a similar approach by enforcing a strict separation between real life and in game advocacy and I’m glad to see they are pushing in that direction.
We want the worlds politics, ideologies and personal affairs out of your game. We also want our natural right to speak with or ignore others to be respected; we’re adults and this game is PG-13 (at least).
And I’m glad to see the term ‘vulgar’ has been removed. Vulgarity and the objections to it are something parents should teach their children, not the language police or CCP. It’s a matter of expression and communication. In some cases it is entirely emotive and fully expressive of an idea or concept, in others it is in no way expressive at all and simply wrong. Teach your children the difference and why swearing is (sometimes) a poor use of language; don’t expect CCP to do it for you.
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Placing bounties on people is not harassment, nor is sending a mail telling you to get a permit.
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Thank you for the additional background, I should have just asked what you interpreted the ‘vast differences’ to be. I think Oxford’s definition is describing racism only as a negative. Complimenting “positive traits” of one race over another, is a statement of opinion and dangerous ground to walk on.
But I think it’s simple in the context of the kinds of insults players make in or about EVE on other platforms. If players don’t make comments that are either positive (which could be sarcasm) or negative, whether toward a group of real players or an individual, with respect to race (really - ethnic groups, since we are all members of “the human race”) THEN players should not get into trouble with CCP.
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For some people it seems really a challenge to separate ingame from reality
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I don’t even buy really into ethnic groups either (nor I do buy into racism). I think the whole theory about the “races” is lunatic to begin with. Culture and heritage are two things closely connected, but race? nah.
Anyway, I digress.
I totally agree with you that this topic is much more heated than it probably will play out. For me personally, I really don’t care what CCP does because I have no interest in smacktalking and the like, but because CCP has actively encouraged what many would call “toxic behaviour” in the past, I think CCP really needs to be much more clear on these points.
Talking crap in local or, more general, when dealing with other players was perfectly fine for many, many years. Now we have a 180° turn on that (appearantly?) and the definitions have changed a lot in the meantime.
As I am a bit more aged now, I for one support HTFU and I do, occasionally, shake my head in disbelief when I see what gets some people triggered: I don’t understand why it’s suddenly “sexist, racist, homophob or HateSpeech” mainly because there are no universally accepted definitions and they change a lot based on who you ask, so I usually stick to my own or the ones from reliable sources.
I just think it’s wrong to not be clear on those, especially when you have an aging playerbase that has and probably will not accept “millenial” (for the lack of a better word) argumentation.
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And a new sport was created.
In all seriousness the term “hate speech” is stupidly broad and means very little these days. I could say there are only 2 genders and someone who doesn’t understand science might mistakenly think that was hate speech. I could say religious people are mentally ill and someone with the IQ of a grape might accuse me of more hate speech.
Well said.
Is there a CCP definition of hate speech?
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If they use a male avatar then they are male as far as I am concerned.
If they use a female avatar then they are female.
I doubt that CCP is going to start banning people for not tracking which specific toons “identify” as which genders.
There are basically only two types of people.
1 ) Those who cry for Mommy.
2 ) Those who will prosper during the zombie apocalypse.
Without the first group, the second group will lack content.
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In all seriousness, this “controversy” you speak of here are in reality a handful of teenagers who troll everyone and people actually fall for that crap. Do you know any sane person who would think this is even worth talking about?
This has also absolutely nothing to do with the policy update CCP did.
It should be pretty clear to any sane person what they mean with hate speech. The only people who have a problem with this are the same who will try to space-lawyer this into a rule to ban their game enemies because they just can’t separate the game from reality.
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Calm down dude.
Hate Speech has been a hot button topic lately, specifically the ramifications of allowing people to pick and choose the definition of the term.
Calm down though. That’s the message here.
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CCP may be forced by law to adopt a ‘hate speech’ policy. The UK already arrests people for putting opinion on Facebook and other social media. We don’t know what Icelandic laws are and we can’t judge CCP too harshly; even though it’s clearly wrong. Your right about one thing, it’s trolling, but it’s also a political tool.
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You’re*
Your post was flagged as inappropriate: the community feels it is offensive, abusive, or a violation of our community guidelines.
Got that for an earlier post in this very topic. Ironic.
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You’re ■■■■■■■ paranoid, dude. Get help.
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Its not hipocritical. They didnt have to use RL money. They could of ground out the isk. They decided to open their wallet. They decided to risk it.
It means you can be detrimental or overly favorable to a racial group.
How many warnings until a ban?
Do they go away after a while?
If someone goes on a rant about my supposed ancestors, and I reply with a “yo mama” joke, should I be punished as harshly as he is?
Do the GMs have a hard line, or is this going to result in another case of “I said ■■■■ you in local and got perma’d” while the next dude went on a racist rant and got a warning?
Why is CCP unwilling to draw the line, despite it being how real-life law works regarding serious crimes (not thought crimes)?
Is this a result of the Fair Play Alliance, or is this a byproduct of the buyout?
Would you be able to say if this was a byproduct of the buyout?
Which dictionary or legal definitions are you using?
Does this mean you will be taking down the “HTFU” song because it is verbally abusing players?
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