I hope the mods don’t shut this down. It’s been a pretty good read and as an American I don’t often get to see the EU/UK version of politics so this has been pretty interesting and informative.
3 Likes
The “victims” in this case were warned not to do the self-destructive thing, dismissed all of the warnings, and did it anyway. You wanted your Darwin award, you got it. Enjoy your increase in prices.
(Now, if you voted against brexit and are trapped in a country determined to kill its own economy you do get some sympathy. But the UK as a whole wanted this, and made its statement in the clearest possible terms.)
3 Likes
It is sad for those who didn’t vote for it, but this is a country that is still holding other countries or parts of countries as “colonies” so the long term behavior of England makes this kind of par for the course yes? There has been room for reform for centuries if people wanted it.
If any of the UKs members or overseas territories want to become independent all they have to do is hold a local referendum that shows a clear majority and ask. Scotland has already done the first part but failed the clear majority test.
Gibraltar residents have overwhelmingly said they wish to remain an overseas territory as have those in the Falkland Islands.
We’re not the only country in Europe with overseas territories, both France and Spain have them. Elsewhere the US does too.
With reference to Northern Ireland The Northern Ireland Act 1998 states that “if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland”, the Secretary of State shall make an Order in Council enabling a border poll.
1 Like
No, because the vote was not just Scotland, England got to vote as well…
one of the many paradoxical things about Northern Ireland, is that some of the hardcore republican types are against a united Ireland in the EU, because that would oblige Ireland to recognise Ulster-Scots as a minority language, under EU law. And they are so vehemently opposed to acknowledging anything about Ulster-Scots as a language or ethnic grouping, that they would prefer NI to remain separate.
If you’re referring to the Scottish Independence referendum, no the English (as a whole) did not get to vote in that; the vote was restricted to citizens of the EU and the Commonwealth living in Scotland at the time and registered Scottish voters who were living elsewhere.
The electorate for that referendum was just over 4 million which is about 10% of the total UK electorate and the turnout 85%. Circa 90% of UK voters didn’t get to vote because we weren’t eligible to, not being Scottish voters or living in Scotland.
Are you getting it confused with the leaving the EU referendum where all UK voters got to have their say?
1 Like
People that live in Scotland got to vote. Scottish nationals living around the world got to vote. The vote was even extended to 16 year olds.
England did not get to vote on Scottish independence. Neither did the millions of Scots living in England. Which Includes my father a proud Scotsman, who was absolutely gutted he couldn’t vote.
While his tw@t of a cousin a retired chief constable, former Worshipful Master of a Lodge. That absolutely hates the “Dhirty Inglish Bhastads” and lives in Spain could !!!
2 Likes
On a related note, Barbados is looking to drop HM Queen Liz as head of state and become a republic, Buck Palace’s response is that it’s a decision for Barbados and Barbados alone, and that they’re welcome to remain part of the Commonwealth if they wish just as others who have changed their head of state have done.
1 Like
The whole Brexit thing makes me utterly weep.
-
Firstly the referendum was basically as crooked as it it’d be if it was being held in some backwater country in the developing world with endemic corruption - there was wide-scale lying from the ‘leave’ lobby and in addition to the (now fairly well known) Russian involvement, there were a multitude of rich companies, millionaires and billionaires practically queuing up to inject cash to make the vote go the ‘right’ way.
-
Additionally, whatever the leavers might say, the victory was only by an incredibly slim majority of 3.8% (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results) which means, in practical terms, that half the country has basically been democratically ignored on the basis of a 3.8% majority.
-
On top of all this, it’s literally nothing to do with 'taking back control’ (a widely used phrase from the leave camp during the campaign) at all. If you look at the timeline and at the accompanying EU legislative agenda then it’s just a little curious that, was the UK still in the EU at this stage, then all the crooked tax-avoiding UK protectorates around the world (Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, et al) would now have to start transparently declaring who they were storing money for, and which tax regime they were normally domiciled in. Remember all the rich companies, millionaires and billionaires chucking money into the leave campaign? Go figure. (https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/news/eu-tax-transparency-tools-prove-effective-fight-against-tax-evasion-and-tax-avoidance_en)
-
Lastly, aside of the terrifying economic realities of leaving that are now going to be thrust upon us imminently, there are also all the other things that were conveniently not mentioned by the leave camp at the time of the referendum- no right to live anywhere you want in Europe (so no more retirement for Brits into places like Spain); potentially no more visa-free travel (leading to masses of extra travel costs); additional health insurance costs (because we’ll no longer be covered by the E111)(https://www.gov.uk/visit-europe-1-january-2021); oh and all the grant money that the EU currently gives to UK farmers, impoverished communities (who ironically largely voted for Brexit in droves [see: turkeys, Christmas, vote for more info]) and community groups is all going to come to a crashing halt.
But, hey, it’s okay because at least we’ll be ‘in control’ right?
Not of anything in particular if you’re a normal kind of person, but if you’re staggeringly wealthy you’ll be in control of how you can squirrel your cash away to avoid paying your fair share of tax.
Great.
Urg!
4 Likes
It wasn’t an election, it was a referendum 
The widespread lying was somewhat appropriate, we entered the EEC/EU on a lie, it seems fitting that we leave it on one too.
The UK was told in 1971 that there was no question of losing essential sovereignty; in 1973 PM Edward Heath doubled down on that statement when he signed the Treaty of Rome by saying that “there are some in this country who fear that, in going into Europe, we shall in some way sacrifice independence and sovereignty. These fears, I need hardly say, are completely unjustified.”
In 1975 the UK joined the EEC via a referendum based on those statements, despite the Treaty of Rome stating that the primary purpose was an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe.
Both Edward Heath and his successor Harold Wilson knew that, in joining the EEC, they were ceding sovereignty and joining a political project which had as its end goal the creation of a federal United States of Europe.
FCO 30/1048 is a official Foreign Office document from the time that detailed how the UK would surrender its sovereignty if it joined the EEC/EU, it was classified as confidential and hidden away, it didn’t become available to the public until 2002.
TL;DR it’s been a mess of lies and a cock-up of epic proportions since 1971. We’re damned if we leave, we’re damned if we stay; the only winner in the whole debacle is the EU.
6 Likes
Im not supposed to comment because Im Alpha, but there are reasons why theres been no referendum on a one island state beyond whether its allowed or not.
In fact, all sources point to it it probably passing, but a certain First Minister has a conveniently set up system that prevents that lever being pulled.
Edit: and thats beside the other issue of Westminster attempting to make unilateral decisions that would invalidate the Good Friday Agreement and cause this place to turn once more into the crappiest place on Earth.
Can i have your isk ?
well… my domestic electricity bill is going DOWN from November, as is my gas bill, by something like 12%.
I call that a win.
1 Like
That’s a matter of interpretation, sovereignty being the authority of a state to govern itself or other states.
1 Like
We haven’t lost sovereignty? Then explain the EU’s demand for control over our fishing waters.
Which just shows your total lack of knowledge on this subject. I’m English, we did not get to vote on the Scottish referndum.
Brilliant comments Jonah, nice to hear from someone with a well developed knowledge of this subject unlike others here.
Yes, we didn’t get to vote, as it should have been.
Stayed up all night watching that Scottish referendum. If they want to leave they’re quite welcome to as long as they stop using our currency and British passports.
My understanding when originally joining the EU (British people got a vote on it) it was just a trading agreement. Later it became something else (British people didn’t get to vote). So now the British people have voted on what the EU has become.
Really? They’re demanding that we have to give them fishing rights otherwise we won’t get a deal and that’s just one thing.