[Proposal] Changes to Rorqual


(Maria Loudon) #1

So the Rorqual. It seems to be a lot of love or hate over this thing which I can agree with. I like it because frankly its a bit OP at what it does and it makes mining a lot more reasonable. I hate it because unless you have a very large backup fleet behind it, you really can’t get a lot out of one before something causes it to go boom. This ends up limiting the Rorqual to the bigger alliances which can field effectively endless supercap fleets. Even if your smaller alliance can do the same, you’re limited to the number of caps you have and if you do drop them, expect a large response if you are fighting a big alliance.

To that end I’ve got a few proposals that might help the situation.

  1. Offer a short duration i-core option that is maybe only 60-120 seconds but only gives half bonuses.
  2. Instead of a PANIC module, a 5 minute system wide Cyno jam module. PANIC module would still exist but you could fit the jam module instead, but not both. It would be really nice if this module could to work in NPC null space as well. Like the PANIC module it burns out when used but at the end of say a 20 minute cool down so you can’t just cycle through a bunch of rorqs and keep the system perpetually jammed. Although, knowing people this is likely something they would try so maybe 20 minutes isn’t enough.

I think with these two options it would give smaller corps / alliances a chance to attempt to protect the Rorq if they respond quickly and can beat back the attackers before the cyno jam ends. For larger alliances this does not do a whole lot as they usually jump in the supers so you would want to keep the PANIC module.

Anyway, just an idea.


(Lugburz) #2

i prefer the idea of different sized cyno inhibs that have stronger effects the larger they are.

tbh this post literally looks like you want even more safety to mine in nullsec which im completely not keen on, for a start i dont think a rorq should be able to cyno AND panic at the same time; one or the other.

As for needing a back up fleet well maybe but you have the option already to anchor an inhib ongrid with you.

in regards to your system wide cyno inhib; people would simply jump these into mining systems and log them off or some ■■■■ before an attack; its not a good idea.


(Do Little) #3

Rorquals are being used in substantial numbers = good
They are dying in substantial numbers = good
Their massive harvest has made the large capital and super capital fleets possible resulting in the largest fights in the games history = good

On the minus side, Rorquals and Orcas are supposed to be mining support ships - instead they have reduced barges and exhumers to irrelevance. I don’t think this was intended and I don’t think it’s good for the game.


(Kiddoomer) #4

Only one industrial core that could be activated in a 500km radius would do the job of making a rorqual a support mining ship.

5min for Panic is a little too long imo.


(Dragos Highwind) #5

The Rorqual and the Orca are both, presumably, meant to be force multipliers for mining fleets correct? Why on earth did they grant bonuses to drone mining on them? They should be support ships, not workers themselves.


(Do Little) #6

Prior to Ascension Rorquals and, to a lesser extent, Orcas stayed behind the safety of a POS forcefield and passively boosted an entire system - the pilot was usually an AFK ALT.

When command bursts replaced boosts, the ships had to be on-grid so drone mining gave the pilot something to do. For the Rorqual, you have a high value target in dangerous space so let it mine enough to make it worth the risk. It seemed reasonable, people were debating whether players would be willing to risk Rorquals on grid right up to launch day.

I don’t think anyone anticipated what was going to happen - CCP nerfed Rorquals twice last winter but they’ve been left alone for about a year now. Like the Gila, they are too dominant and that imbalance will need to be corrected. I’ll shed a few tears when the nerf bat arrives for Gila but will be glad to see Rorqual toned down a bit.


(Dragos Highwind) #7

Interesting, sounds like there is confusion from the dev team on what the ship is “meant to be”. I would think that removing the drone boosts and giving it + tractor range / velocity would push it back into the support role. The actual mining, in my opinion, should be done by barges and exhumers while a ship of this nature is a force multiplier. Worker bees do the work, while the Ror boosts the fleet, pulls in the jettisoned ore, and and compresses it to pass to transporters.


(Maria Loudon) #8

I agree with most of the above posts. The Rorq should really not have drone bonuses but it does. So okay if that is the case then those need to be more accessible. As it stands it is sorta like a wealth gap that keeps widening. Those on the far side of the gap continue to get further and further away and command more and more resources that they actively use to impede others from bridging. Their goal may be to simply blow stuff up but the end result is the same. Sociopolitical commentary aside, it has real impacts on the game play. If you are going to allow a David and Goliath situation then either you accept the David’s of the world will generally fail or you provide the ability for them to strike the Goliath with leverage. The problem with David failing here is you loose players / the game isn’t as fun after you get past the I’m an explorer! In the “real world” we have things like gorilla warfare and terrorism. A boat packed full of explosives can take out a battleship. We don’t have this in EVE so and thus alternative means must be employed. Frankly I like the idea of being able to wage a gorilla war far more then I like nerfing or changing the Rorq / super caps. Adding the ability to suicide into a super / structure is a neat idea. Add a module that fits to hullers and requires 12k m3 of something in the hold to activate that causes some massive damage but blows up the ship and pod. It would also make ganking a lot more interesting. Is that huller filled with goods or explosives? That said, if you want to do that then things like the PANIC module and high angle guns need to go. If you want to shoot frigs with your dread you can fit small blasters.

Disclaimer, IANAT and I do not support “terrorism”. Sometimes the word is misapplied like when someone is calling the opposition terrorists even though they are only attacking military and industrial targets. That would be a grey area there. But there is never a valid excuse to target civilians.
That said, I’d love to be one in EVE.


(Lugburz) #9

Its quite simple, take their ability to cyno and panic at the same time.


(Maria Loudon) #10

IDK @Lugburz I think that might be harder to implement then you think. The problem is the PANIC module effects industrials within range. They would need to deal with canceling the cyno to resolve the PANIC state or make it so PANIC does not apply to a ship with a cyno up. Even then, it isn’t much and likely not enough.


(Daoden) #11

Remove PANIC period. Properly fit a rorq can tank very well as well as deal some dps. Most small groups won’t engage it because it does take a bit of dps to kill.


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