Ok, I get the sentiment to “save” newbros in a starter system or something, but if you keep new players safe from all risk, how will they learn to play the game?
L4 mission runners are not new players. They are almost the top dog of highsec PvE, only surpassed by the Incursion runner. If they aren’t fair game for criminals, then who is?
This is proposal is nonsensical. Eve is a competitive PvP sandbox game where you can be shot anywhere. There is some room for discussion around how and when new players are introduced to “the wild” but bubble-wrapping those engaging in the most lucrative, top tier PvE in highsec makes no sense.
Go play EvE Echoes if you want a pure PvE game. This is Eve Online.
If you know so much about ganking, then you would know that in the balance between ganker and prey, the deck is already stacked heavily against the ganker.
Second, it’s absolutely amazing how many anti-gank threads say that they have no problems with ganking, they’re just trying to think of the newbros.
Third, coddling newbros won’t help them learn and grow as players. And it’s better that they learn how to navigate Eve’s dangers and manage risk while they are still young and flying cheap ships. It will lesson the sting of hard lessons, and help them to develop good habits from the get go.
Fourth, your argument that new players don’t know how to search for information regarding ganking is flawed.
The same argument can be applied to any danger that newbros regularly face in Eve.
If you haven’t learned how to find information this far into the information age, you’re either a senior citizen or an idiot.
Personal experience is a pretty good ■■■■■■■ teacher, and a valid way to learn the game. In fact, some people actually prefer to learn through playing, than by reading guides, attending Eve University Lectures, watching videos, or whatnot.
Fifth, gankers are an important part of the player ecosystem for multiple reasons.
Destruction through ganking drives industry and trade by creating demand (and even if the economy was ■■■■■■ up beyond all repair [which it is not], that still wouldn’t justify making things far, far worse).
Removing ganking would act as a considerable buff to hauling and PvE in HS, which would have a dramatic effect on isk faucets, the supply of almost all manufactured goods, production materials, loot obtained in HS, and LP store items obtained through HS PvE.
Ganking is a play style enjoyed by many players. And arguing to get rid of it is on par with arguing that missioning should be cut out of the game.
Gankers provide emergent game play opportunities for anti-gankers and even prey (my first solo kill was against a ganker, and I managed to save my buddy’s ship in the process).
There is no satisfaction or sense of accomplishment in overcoming trivial obstacles. And without the danger posed by ganking, most HS PvE would be trivially easy (not only would there be no threat from PvP, but you could bling freely). It’s just unfortunate that ganking has been nerfed so heavily, as the threat is now almost inconsequential to anyone who follows best practices.
Fifth, I’m going to need a source on this one dude.
It is for whoever wants it to be that way and not everyone in Eve aspires for PvP.
CCP should put more effort into properly introducing the players into this game , because the idea is to keep them around, otherwise it will all just be Alts and Titans Online, until we’ll be playing just alone with our alts.
You don’t have to aspire to ship PvP combat, but sharing and influencing the other players is a defining feature of New Eden. That includes being a target for others who want to PvP with you with their ships, but also compete with your industry, resource gathering, trading, exploring or any other aspect of the game. You don’t get to opt out of that or pick and choose what aspects of the shared universe you get. It’s all or nothing.
So in highsec, that means you are still open to PvP, but you do have an invincible ally to come to your rescue in seconds if you are attacked. Learn how to use them, and the other tools available to you, and you will prevail. Basically learn the game.
You will no doubt have more success than pleading for CCP to fundamentally change their successful 17 year-old game. ‘Nowhere is safe’ has been the mantra for New Eden since the beginning and it ain’t gonna change now.
You are sympathetic towards suicide ganking , ok I can respect that , everyone is entitled to have its own opinion .
What part of my reply haven’t you understood ? How is ganking the t1 Vexor or a t2 fitten Enyo in highsec going to fix the Eve economy ?!? They are ganking in the wrong place . They should gank more in to c6 class wormholes and nullsec space, there is the problem with the Eve economy , the infinite ISK printing .
Go gank titans there , there’s an absurd amount of bling on them. But no , the “elite” ganker , instead of doing a dreadbomb , ganks the poor t1 highsec Vexor that does level 2 missions , and fixes the Eve economy … Are you seriously ???
Here are the ones that “fix” Eve economy:
Ganking gets all this attention because it’s essentially the last bastion of affordable highsec aggression.
How is a new player supposed to go out and raise a little hell these days? 600 million for a structure, another few hundred million for a core, plus ship equipment, another… 100 million is it for a wardec these days? And people complain about exploding barges and mission boats that only need to cost a very small fraction of that amount to be viable for that kind of gameplay.
To balance HS aggression so that ganking is not as prominent, provide other avenues that are affordable.
It was a beautiful game in the early days . It is true that we had plenty of other problems back then , like The Drakenstein and the lag caused by its missile , POS grinding , and so many that I can list here , but don’t have the time for that …
If you were to ask me -and I started in 2008- with all of the problems at that time , it was a healthier game when compared to what we have now.
IF this were to happen, then a reversal of the war dec mechanics would need occur so that everyone can wardec everyone without restriction(meaning not require a structure) again…so then you would have to be in NPC corp forever or get rekt.
I agree, ganking should be considered a suspect-level offense. That way there is absolutely no need for red safety in highsec and it can be safely removed.
I’m not the one saying “hey what if we removed the sand from the sandbox.” Insulting everyone who disagrees with you is not a good way to get your ideas implemented.
You could have just calmly and nicely explained in a way to persuade the OP to your side, but instead you decided to kick a hornets nest before declaring someone behave better.
Your hypocrisy is bad enough. Your trolling is worse.
Looking at zkillboard as the OP suggests, here are the stats for those systems, for the last 2000 kills in system:
| Statistic | Osmon | Apanake | Lanngisi |
|--------------------------|----------:|----------:|----------:|
| Days for last 2000 kills | 99 | 163 | 329 |
| Number of ganks | 74 | 95 | 45 |
| Mean ganks per day | 0.74 | 0.58 | 0.13 |
| Mean time between ganks | 32 hours | 41 hours | 184 hours |
| Mean victim age | 4.6 years | 6.7 years | 5.3 years |
| Median victim age | 5.2 years | 6.7 years | 3.9 years |
| Ganker ships Concorded | 1181 | 1357 | 351 |
| Average gankers per gank | 16 | 14 | 8 |
On average, less than 1 gank per day over the last 3 months (and for Lanngisi almost the last year).
Hardly seems “suicide gankings has increased like never before”. The level of ganking in the SOE systems used to be significantly higher around 2013-2015 (though I can’t find my old data at the moment and will update if I find it).
Ganking isn’t out of control either, based on those numbers.
Here are the summary stats for each of those systems:
Suicide ganking is down across the board in highsec compared to a few years ago.
Non-nonsensical change isn’t needed.
I agree, but even looking at the above, it isn’t new players getting ganked in the SOE mission hubs even though it seems kind of intuitive that it might be. It seems a lot of more veteran players run the SOE missions and older players should just know better.
Notes:
Criteria to determine if a ship was ganked or was a ganker, I used a slightly modified version that Squizz uses on zkillboard:
Ganker:
Concord on the killmail
Gank Victim:
Not a war related loss (there are a lot of those)
No Concord attacker on the kill
At least 5 attackers
Any attacker in CODE., Pandemic Horde or Goonswarm Federation
Any attacker killed by Concord +/- 1 minute of the kill
The stats also ignore capsules to avoid double counting a gank. There are several victim capsules also killed in the gank and most are low value (no or low value implants).
