Proposition to make ganking harder

[Akkar_Kardashev]

@rkleonid

I hope you know that we are talking only about HS here

Being sensible in HS is also advisable.
You have less chance of being banged but it still happens.
Undock and Gate bookmarks would probably have saved 75% of the people who got ganked in HS.
All the smart bombing happens on the direct path to gates (substitute for bubbles in LS).
Any baiting can just be sidestepped.
That literally just leaves undock bangers, which your undock bookmark will solve.

[MB_ThePhotographer]

@rkleonid

like I said it gives this game a bad taste and in the hands of some people it is an opportunity to be mean and malicious.

Boy did you miss the early game when Griefing had no Concord response. Ganking only came into being after a Concord response was added. I could cruise around shooting anyone I felt I could take out. You would have pissed your pants back then.

[Lydra_Victor]

Unpopular opinion. Gankers are destroying handfull of ships for me to sell my veldspar at a good price They hate me as a miner but they make me rich. they really are obssesed with miners.

[DeMichelle_Geniale]

@rkleonid

and gankers for sure don’t pay for extra accounts, because they make too much ISK from it

I see what you mean now. You didn’t express yourself correctly.
But it doesn’t matter that gankers don’t pay for their account as long the gankees pay for their accounts and replace their ganked ships, continue to feed ships to gankers, buy PLEX… It’s all good. Why should CCP change that?

[Lydra_Victor]

@Aiko_Danuja are you tired with this kind of discussion? or Do we need permits?

[Gerard_Amatin]

@rkleonid

If you have something valuable to sell and you know you can sell it in Jita it is now practically impossible to avoid being hit because you have to fly through bottlenecks anyway and they are unpunished.

What do you mean “practically impossible”?

In my 7, almost 8 years in EVE I have yet to be ganked in Jita when selling or buying items there.

If you think it’s ‘impossible’ to trade in Jita without getting ganked, I understand why you made this thread. Comparing it to my own experience I also understand that you either:

• are exaggerating the impact of gankers, or
• are bad at this game

I recommend that you get good.

[Eckart_GoodSpeed]

I don’t understand if gangsters huddle around Jita, then why not just avoid Jita? Is it worth the risk if I know a certain area is infested with a threat?

[Akkar_Kardashev]

People like to buy and sell, and Jita is a great place to engage in both activities.

[Syzygium]

@Gerard_Amatin

In my 7, almost 8 years in EVE I have yet to be ganked in Jita when selling or buying items there.

This.

Truth is that it is almost impossible to catch a clever player. The mechanics are so much in favor of escaping, if you follow a simple set of rules: Learn the mechanics. Pay attention. Cooperate with others if nessessary.

[Vokan_Narkar]

@rkleonid

and gankers mock the victims during this occasion

Yes some of us does this. Very few of us and the toxic gankers are mostly employed in Safety. alliance. Of course, if you start antiganking and you fail to do so, we all will mock the hell out of you - you got it coming.

Anyway, toxicity is on both sides and gankees are much much often toxic against us gankers. I do not bother translating all these emails and messages in private convo in cyrilic - I don’t think it is going to be translated to “good fight” .

From my experiences, the victims of my ganks are:

• 30% saying nothing at all (but this is related to the fact that I gank blindly and they are often empty)
• 30% mocking me that I have no skill, can’t do better than gank, that they lost nothing, that I got nothing because loot was destroyed, that I suck at pvp, that I am noob, incel from basement and more
• 20% is angry and in rage and they are sending me chat invites or emails where they swear and wish me death, by cancer or my own hand, sometimes including my mother or even whole family
• 10% don’t understand how could they be killed and asking me to explain the mechanics/rules to them which I do

Gankers from my experiences:

• 90% says nothing unless you convo them first
• 10% will mock you and try to mine your salt in their channel
• 1 player in whole game will do above and then post it publicly on website to insult the injury

[Eloken_Toralen]

@rkleonid

The third thing is to forbid the transfer of loot to the fleet hangar of another transport ship that can cause the suspected timer (or when it is active) and to do it by small ships by the “drag and drop” action

The first two items are non starters, though it is a little bit broken that a suspect ship can deposit stuff in a non suspect ship’s cargo. Either spread the suspect ( with the fleet hangar ship needed to be yellow safety to allow this ) with the transfer or block it.

@QuakeGod

Let’s say you have an Athanor and a moon mining OP going on. Given your proposed changes, I could roll up in the moon asteroid field that YOU paid to generate, and suck up every last bit of ore, and there’s not a damn thing you could do about it.

High sec moon mining should ( well, it should be removed, but w/e the cat is out of the bag there ) only be allowed by those in the corporation who owns it, with all other mining causing a suspect timer. This will allow people who actually own the platform an ability to defend it against all thieves and create a penalty to those who use a holding corp to anchor structures rather than expose the main corp to the war dec mechanic, which is honestly a detrimental byproduct of non wardec eligible corporations.

@QuakeGod

Players really don’t think of the consequences of changes they want implemented before they post…

No they do not, however its a place to start a meaningful dialog when the status quo is not making the cut.

@rkleonid

First of all, It’s not whining.

This topic is nothing new and previous attempts have gone nowhere. For those of us who have been there and seen it, maybe it is not exactly whining but it is repetitive and irritating to see the next person who thinks they are first to come up with the idea.

@rkleonid

People leave the game because of ganking

There are many reasons people leave the game. Over a broad time frame its much more liktely people left due to the very unbalanced war declaration mechanics that allowed 5 corporations to create over half the wars with a 100:1 win/loss ratio. Ganking is not a new problem, but it has been a new old problem that necessitated changes ( that should have been day 0 ) to how the game treated sec status loss and restrictions on alpha accounts being used to spam gank alts.

@QuakeGod

If ganking was a problem, there wouldn’t be any players left…

It was a problem and the developers eventually made changes where mechanics allowing the problem to occur.

@rkleonid

You can stop crying about changes which will give you less profit and do sth useful.

Whilst the game could do with tweaking , this kind of attitude does not win support and leads to much of the idea being dismissed out of hand.

@Eckart_GoodSpeed

That being said, I would say this could lead to corporations forming dedicated to policing the sea of stars like the Privateers of old or the Texas Rangers.

That never happens, the second gankers see resistance they go away and hide knowing they are winning strategically by splitting mining power with defensive work. That said, the profession of bounty hunting was essentially removed when CCP disabled kill rights “temporarily” a few years ago and thusly one of the few means of consequence removed.

@Mephiztopheleze

100% of ganks started with a bad decision on the part of the gankee.

That is not entirely fair, there are definitely some ganks that are just random acts of violence. I once undocked from jita in a rookie ship and shot some random tempest to see what would happen.

@Akkar_Kardashev

A single Astero on scan with non combat probes out is dangerous

An astero fit with an expanded probe launcher is like fitting a sattelite dish on a moped. That astero is going to have some seriously limiting factors on the CPU.

@rkleonid

I agree totally but you are talking about null or low sec.

Fair, ganking is really a high sec thing, in low and null its more seal clubbing.

@Akkar_Kardashev

It will be a lawless wild west of brutality

Honestly it will likely be overrun by corporations selling quafe and blowing up moons for mineral extraction.

@MB_ThePhotographer

Just like posting on the forums, you consent to pvp when you undock as well.

This is often quoted though its inherently wrong, gank people in a starter system and see how long it takes before an account ban takes place. Ganking has limits and as the rules change in response to abuses, expect the places and situations where consent is not ‘implied’ to experience continued growth.

@Power_Armor

while neglecting the concept of isk sinks and faucets and the impact on the market.

If CCP really cared about balancing ISK sinks and faucets citadels wouldn’t have effectively infinite storage nor asset safety, yet both exist and few have a problem with it despite how much destruction was removed from the game with their introduction.

@rkleonid

unpunished

Try not to think of the punishment, but the consequence. Punishment is the ganking ship is blown up, though what is really wrong is the consequence is some meaningless sec status loss that can be countered via the purchase of tags. Until the punishment is meaningful in restricting the continual repetition of the same crime ( Thrasher pilot ‘aaarg’ hanging off a gate with -10 sec status back in the day ) by repeat offenders its not really a punishment at all.

@MB_ThePhotographer

I could cruise around shooting anyone I felt I could take out

So everywhere was Null. Null does not have gankers. Gankers would be an entirely different problem if they did not get to decide the time, place and to shoot first.

@Eckart_GoodSpeed

I don’t understand if gangsters huddle around Jita, then why not just avoid Jita?

That might be a viable option if CCP altered the market mechanics, right now Jita is where all the customers are, therefor its where all the buyers are, therefore its where all the customers are. There is nothing other than shipping costs to incentivize distributing more goods outside of the Jita market.

And yes, boom, like 10 replies at once, but only because the forum gets pissed doing it one at a time.

[MB_ThePhotographer]

@Syzygium

a clever player.

Good luck these days…

@Eloken_Toralen

Null does not have gankers.

Just so were clear, when I sleaze into null and pop some clueless soul and get out before any response, that’s not ganking?

[Gerard_Amatin]

@MB_ThePhotographer

Just so were clear, when I sleaze into null and pop some clueless soul and get out before any response, that’s not ganking?

That’s just PvP and the expected behaviour of any non-allied player. People generally won’t call it ‘ganking’ because PvP happens all the time there.

In EVE ‘ganking’ usually refers to ‘suicide ganking’, the act of killing someone in HS in the limited time before CONCORD kills the agressor, which is a very specific subset of PvP.

If CONCORD isn’t involved I wouldn’t call it ganking. Killing a legal war target in HS also isn’t ‘ganking’ for example, even if it is very one-sided.

[Akkar_Kardashev]

@Eloken_Toralen

An astero fit with an expanded probe launcher is like fitting a sattelite dish on a moped. That astero is going to have some seriously limiting factors on the CPU.

You don’t need the expanded launcher for non-combat probes.

Maybe put quality before quantity; boom.

[Eloken_Toralen]

@Akkar_Kardashev

You don’t need the expanded launcher for non-combat probes.

Odd. Why is an astero without combat probes dangerous? If its scanning signatures its landing in relic/data/combat sites and not warping direct. Even if it lands on the person in a site at 0 it has the same penalty to lock time after decloaking as any other ship, so its harmless for at least 5 seconds.

Not sure what kind of exploration fit ya’ll are running that won’t hit warp in under 5 seconds. If the argument is going to be decloaking on warp, then someone isn’t paying attention to d-scan and if its that targets is not paying attention then its not the astero that is dangerous but the person lacking in situational awareness…

[Akkar_Kardashev]

No.

The Astero enters the system, the others wait outside.

The Astero scans down the Data Site you are currently running.

You see the Astero with Standard Probes and assume it is not a threat because you have 5 seconds to dis-bumping yourself from the structure of the data site and bail.

You don’t bother aligning; maybe you’re in the second screen of a hack attempt and you don’t want to lose the container or your ship. It’s only an Astero with standard probes, after all.

Astero lands, confirms you’re there, other ships land in the system, you are aligning, bumping, and Astero is yellow boxing.

Astero gets a lock and warp distupt immediately.

Other ships land on your position.

[Syzygium]

@Akkar_Kardashev

bumping, and Astero is yellow boxing.

Here you have your mistakes. Be in warp before the Astero can yellowbox you, it’s that simple.

[Akkar_Kardashev]

@Syzygium

it’s that simple

<insert wojack image; use your imagination I’m not looking for one>

Read back over the conversation.

All I said was

@Akkar_Kardashev

A single Astero on scan with non combat probes out is dangerous

and then the person I just replied to basically said it wasn’t, but if me not already being in warp was the mistake, should a single astero with non-combat probes out be considered dangerous or not? Because if it’s not, why should I already be in warp?

…half the time on this forum I wonder what in the hell point people are even arguing and if they even know themselves, or is the argument the point?

Rename this the ChatGPT forums ffs

[Syzygium]

@Akkar_Kardashev

Because if it’s not, why should I already be in warp?

By clicking “warp” one second after the Astero decloaks and having a fit that is in warp in like 3 seconds.

Of course an Astero on Dscan with non-Combat Probes is dangerous. Basically every ship that can use the probes to get to you and put a scram on you is.

[Eckart_GoodSpeed]

@Eloken_Toralen

That never happens, the second gankers see resistance they go away and hide knowing they are winning strategically by splitting mining power with defensive work. That said, the profession of bounty hunting was essentially removed when CCP disabled kill rights “temporarily” a few years ago and thusly one of the few means of consequence removed.

Wait, what? I thought we had kill rights