Pulling implants before dying


(Luscius Uta) #1

Some people will, if given a chance, unplug their implants before dying to reduce the value of their lossmail. I’m not fond of such practice, and think it would be nice if you wouldn’t be able to unplug implants while warp scrambled, or inside a warp disruption field. What others think? If you think it’s a bad idea, what do you think about allowing us to use ship scanner on a capsule to find out what implants it has?


(Arcanith Lionheart) #2

I never actually thought of that, I reckon it should be done within a station or at the very least out of combat.


(Nevyn Auscent) #3

Why does it matter. They lose the implants either way. Only thing affected is your kb and epeen


(yellow parasol) #4

i see no reason to deny someone’s freedom to do so, just because of numbers on a killmail.

Exactly why he wants it gone. :slight_smile:

I’d go for the cargo scanner, or a seperate module, but i like this one. It’d help gankers finding pods worth ganking.


(Black Pedro) #5

Ship scanner for implants? Nah. I mean I guess it couldn’t hurt but kinda useless although I guess it would put auto-piloting pods at more risk if gankers could scan first before shooting. Not sure it is worth the development time.

But as to your main idea, yes. Kill mails should be as accurate as possible as a general design goal so cheesing the kill mail by yanking implants should be prevented. I think the best would just be to allow them to be yanked, but if your pod explodes within 5 minutes, they just appear on the kill mail anyway. That would put a hard limit on the practice of people holding pods to share kills and force them to get it over with quickly. But really, this doesn’t really matter much as kill mails are pretty ephemeral and don’t directly affect the game so it has to be a low priority change. Still, it’s probably a relatively easy one and one I think would benefit the game.

+1


(Merin Ryskin) #6

No, killmails should be removed as a general design goal. And CCP should certainly not spend one minute pandering to the people who obsess over their killboard stats. If you’re somehow failing to insta-pop a pod fast enough to prevent implant destruction then too bad, you don’t get that value added to your killboard stats. Get over it.


(Scipio Artelius) #7

Kill the pod immediately rather than waiting for everyone to whore on it.

Holding pods in bubbles and scrammed long enough to unplug isn’t the fault of the guy unplugging.

Want a shiny kill, kill it faster.


(Black Pedro) #8

Well you are entitled to your opinion, but historically the consensus does not agree with you. The CSM minutes show the community was overwhelmingly in favour of CCP both adding implants to kill mails, and preventing the practice of self-destructing ships to dodge kill mail generation. CCP spent much developer effort improving the accuracy of kill mails and I see no reason to change that general strategy even if what the OP describes is an edge-case of little real consequence. I think though I would rather see Fozzie follow through on his intention to plug the self-destruct-under-tether-to-dodge-a-killmail loophole first.

People who obsess over or give too much importance to kill mails deserve your derision, especially killboards which credit everyone with a kill, but only mark a single player with a loss, so everyone is killboard green, but in a sandbox game with so few actual conflict drivers, kill mails are a major motivator of player activity. Taking them away would have a massive chilling effect on the game and I see no benefit to do so other than to perhaps make a few people who can’t handle losing a PvP encounter with another human feel better about themselves.

I find that it is usually those who obsess the most over killboard stats the ones shouting the loudest for their removal (or arguing for their right to cheese the historical record for that matter). Get over it people and HTFU - having an accurate record of your wins or losses saved for posterity changes nothing about your game.


(yellow parasol) #9

i see no point in changing the game for epeen and feelings, which is exactly what this is about. we already suffer from enough ideas that nonsensically limit player freedom, just because someone’s ego doesn’t feel satisfied. plus, how the hell would he even know if someone ripped his implants out? the only way of knowing, is because the victim told him so, and there is no way of knowing if it’s actually true.

therefore this idea is completely based on a touched ego and shouldn’t see the light of the day.


(Black Pedro) #10

HTFU yellow parasol. You seem fine pandering to the ego of the guy yanking the implants to protect his precious killboard, but it is unreasonable for the guy who actually earned a legit kill to ask that the record accurately reflect what transpired?

I think you need to check your premises. There is no need to limit player freedom to yank, but the killlboard should reflect what he was sporting when he was fighting. Risk vs. reward, consequences and all that my friend.


(yellow parasol) #11

YOU’RE the one who needs to HTFU, not me! YOU (or him) are the one crying about how someone told you he ripped out his implants, without you even knowing if it’s actually true! :slight_smile:


(yellow parasol) #12

that’s the thing, really. you don’t know it, at all! you just assume it, because he says so, in hopes you’re insecure enough and care about killboards! he makes you cry, and now aou come crying for a nerf! :slight_smile:

tangential: this is like afk cloaking, where people cry for a change, because the afk cloaker MIGHT have a fleet waiting! it’s purely psychological! :slight_smile:

sorry for the second post. :slight_smile:


(Black Pedro) #13

I haven’t mentioned a specific event at all and could care less about some kill of the OP. I am discussing a proposed change to game mechanics to improve the accuracy of killmails. You are arguing that players should have the right to soothe their ego by pulling implants that they were using in a fight they lost. For shame.

In case you missed it though the HTFU act I am doing is just to highlight how silly these forums can be some times. As you see above, plenty of otherwise rational people chime in in threads like this with ‘HTFU’ to the OP to what is in my opinion, a completely reasonable, if not especially pressing proposal. Yet, they come here and tell him he should just HTFU and deal with the game without giving a reason why the game is somehow better if people can pull implants and falsify the kill record.

In short: it isn’t. Many times in the past the CSM and CCP have decided kill mails should be more accurate. Maybe this isn’t an especially important concern, but just telling the OP to HTFU and deal with it is indulging in some of your own ego-stroking and it goes on too much on these forums.

Well +1 again, OP. I suggest you whisper your concern in the ear of the CSM before the next meeting and see if it can get some traction.


(yellow parasol) #14

you’re the one who brought HTFU into it and now you’re the one who can’t deal with the ego thing and projects it onto me. :slight_smile:

i’m the one saying that a change, with the goal of nerfing psychological shenanigans, isn’t a necessary change. otherwise afk cloaking would need to be changed as well, because people are crying about the very idea that there might be someone there with a fleet behind him. :slight_smile:

it’s the same as the OP crying about the very idea that someone ripped out his implants! you want a change based on pure speculation, caused by someone who plays psychological games. :slight_smile:

the idea for this change roots in psychological shrnanigans and not in “he ripped out his implants and it ruins the accuracy of my killboard”. There is not a shred of evidence that they had some, just like there is not a shred of evidence that an afk cloaker is an actual threat, when no one tries to find out! :slight_smile:

btw, i’m all for not letting people suicide themselves, because that’s just ■■■■■■■■. it’s also something completely different, because the ship actually suicided, compared to people who might rip out their implants without any evidence that they did. :slight_smile:

and that’s why i say it’s bad, because it gives room for people who cry about afk cloakers without any evidence that they actually represent a threat. :slight_smile: i don’t care if you care about the killboard. i don’t care if either side thinks they’re manchildishness gets satisfied or not. i care about the fact that this idea only exists, because someone potentially got outplayed psychologically! a can of worms people shouldn’t touch, because it leads to “they did it here, so why not there as well?”

sure, it’s ■■■■ when someone rips his implants out, but you have zero way of knowing if it happened and you have zero way of knowing if it’s true!


(Old Pervert) #15

Honestly, I want to keep it in, purely for the mental image I have every time I think of someone unplugging implants from within their pod.

They’re implanted, right? Like… inside your head? Your not-supposed-to-open head?

My mental image is that of a “bang head here” sticker on a bulkhead within the pod, with the pilot repeatedly bashing their head into said bulkhead as they lose their shiny ship, likely swearing and cussing the whole time.

~~
More seriously, I agree. The only reason they pull them is because they care about their killboards. So we’ll give them another reason to cry by shitting up their killboards a bit more :slight_smile:

I’d rather only see it possible where clone services are available.

~~EDIT:

Personally, my opinion on the actual intent of killboards is so you can say “I killed a ship with a ship”. If dude was running high-grade snakes in his kitey bullship, that’s a huge advantage that deserves to be recorded when he loses his ship, regardless of the pod.


(William Ormono) #16

Showing pod implants on a ship killmail - Interesting idea. I’d be for it, but I wouldn’t want the value of the implants being reflected on the value of the KM, as they will not be destroyed with the ship.


(Old Pervert) #17

I can’t see why sites like zkill would put the value of something not lost on a kill mail, however anyone with half a brain would be able to know that if they don’t see a pod KM the pod wasn’t destroyed and neither were the implants.


(Terraferma) #18

That is an interesting thought you have brought up! I would not have thought people would be interested in unplugging their implants just in case they were able to get away.


(Old Pervert) #19

I’ve not yet lost a fight in expensive implants, however I’ve taken a few of those fights. You can bet the moment I know I’m going to lose, I’ll be pulling implants while trying to escape, or pulling implants while I die in a blaze of failure.

This is my killboard. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My killboard is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master life. Without me, my killboard is useless. Without my killboard, I am useless.

:gun:
~~
Regardless, that’s not what I meant at all. I meant that if I’m beating someone and they had high grade slaves, snakes, crystals, whatever, it was that much harder to kill them (potentially at least) and recognition for that kill would be nice. Even if you didn’t get their pod, knowing their pod contributed to the fight certainly makes my epeen engorge.


(Marika Sunji) #20

What if I have an alternative implant set inside my cargo hold that would grant me an advantage (say, HG slaves)? My machariel gets bubbled and now I cannot remove the EG-601 to install Slave Omega. I do realize the presented situation is a real edge case, but it is still limiting player freedom for the sake of 420xXxNOSCOPExXx420 1337 KB.