PvE Exploration Restrictions on T3

[Layla_Cross]

First off… Bloody hell what an essay!

@Siegfried_Tahl

@Layla_Cross

For the most part, I loose a site because drones out range me, Warrior 2’s Hobgoblin 2’s are a Lot faster than my AB fitted lasor T3 boat. By the time I’ve gotten in range the drones have done enough damage to secure the commander kill even if I do get a hit on it.

@Mkikaden_Tiragen

It isn’t your character’s skills that are in question when it comes to your contest losses. It is your own ability that is a potential fault for your experience. Knowledge of how to efficiently run the sites, and the personal capabilities to apply that knowledge, go a long way to determining who will win a contested site.

@Layla_Cross

Did you seriously just say that to a 9 year vet!?

And yet, this is exactly the reason you keep losing to drone boats.

Why AB fit? Use MWD. Why pulse and not beam lasers?

Well by that argument, why not fit heavy missile launchers?? I run dual armor repair fit for tanking purposes. Fitting beam lasors has a direct impact on survivability and lasors/beams also need capacitor which reduces my ability to active armor tank and in amarr ships, armor is best. I don’t fit to win contests I fit for longevity! Ifllll someone steals my loot then fair play… Again this is not the purpose of this thread, the purpose of this thread is regarding unbalanced restrictions.

@Siegfried_Tahl

If you start applying immediately as you land you can outdps drone boats before their drones reach the target.

Do you realise how fast T2 warrior drones can close the distance and engage a target at very long ranges? If a T1 cruiser can finish a site, T2 drones are more than capable to secure kills.

@Siegfried_Tahl

BTW How do you scan sites? All skills at V or even some IVs let you go 4AU - 1 AU - 0.25AU skipping one step each time

I don’t understand the question? Back in the day you had to manually place probes in a spread pattern… Now the game does that for you which I strongly disagree with… Takes the skill out of it.

@Siegfried_Tahl

Do you align and pre-accelerate on gates to instawarp on room clear?

I do

@Siegfried_Tahl

Do you use Warp speed Rigs and modules, Ascendancy implants?

I do not, they are not required and prefer capacitor rigs to make my ship cap stable with all guns firing, ab and 1 medium shield repper active… Again it’s about longevity. If I wanted to fit to win sites then I’m sure i could but so could many other ships, it’s not exclusive to a T3.

@Siegfried_Tahl

Come to Forge, Citadel, Black Rise or Lonetrek. Try to find uncontested Gurista Den. Then see how long before competition comes in. At least 1 visitor every time.

No thanks because that would require me to first find a site and then travel light years to swap ships, I’m sure the site won’t exists by the time I get back. I didn’t say there was no explorers, just less than there was a few years ago due to other better paying content. The vast majority of explorers remaining are hobbyists like myself of new pilots trying out the content. If I see a new pilot I usually offer my help and guidance rather than steal their loot. Heck, I’ll probably pay for their upgrades and next ship! I love exploring and wish more people would do it and more content within it.

@High Sec Isk per Hour General Discussion

I’ve been taking a closer look at what constitutes my average monthly income for the past 3 months and it turns out that out of 7 bil monthly almost 50% are c-type pithum invulns, 8 of them, they seem to drop at 10-15% chance from Gurista 4/10s

I wouldn’t know the stats, my ship is restricted but your’s is not. And what ship type are you running with?? Be honest.
Also, how many hours per day do you scan? I can spare maybe 5-10 hours per week at a push. So sites are not as frequent for me.

@Siegfried_Tahl

@Layla_Cross

Go look on you tube regarding abyssal sites… You’re trying to tell me you can make more isk exploring?? I laugh in your face!

You can dive in T5 Abyss from highsec, but it’s not really highsec content, is it? Also in this case high payouts imply much much higher risk and skill requirement, far from

But you can still access it from high sec and is still much safer than scanning in 0.0 and still pays significantly more than other PvE content.

This debate is pretty much pointless to continue on anyway, we have a difference of opinions and judging by the CSM’s initial response, he’s not going to support this notion… So to continue to debate this really is irrelevant.

[Mkikaden_Tiragen]

You cited getting beaten in contest by a VNI as evidence that the T3Cs would not be OP in these sites. The counter argument is that you were beaten not because the VNI is ‘better’ than your ship, but because the pilot applied blitzing mechanics more effectively than you did.

Aside from convenience for you: what value does allowing T3Cs into these sites add for the game as a whole? Keeping them out ensures high-sec content that is open to new players has a more level playing field - in fact, you have presented arguments that would favor further restricting eligible ship classes, not opening them further.

[Derath_Ellecon]

@Layla_Cross

Again this is not the purpose of this thread, the purpose of this thread is regarding unbalanced restrictions.

Yes we know. And in that aspect nothing really has changed, at least not enough to warrant the changes you want.

Back when T3C’s were restricted they may have been more powerful in some ways. Mostly they were too tanky. But while they have been balanced down they are still very strong.

At the same time other ships have been balanced as well. The ishtar for example has been nerfed over the years as well.

Bottom line from a shp to ship balancing standpoint things have shuffled around but the end result is still pretty much the same.

Basically everything everyone has posted has been to try and point out the flaws in your logic to this end.

CCP doesn’t, nor should they try ship balancing from how popular or profitable an activity is. That is just a bad idea.

@Layla_Cross

This debate is pretty much pointless to continue on anyway, we have a difference of opinions and judging by the CSM’s initial response, he’s not going to support this notion… So to continue to debate this really is irrelevant.

We can agree on something.

[Siegfried_Tahl]

@Layla_Cross

And what ship type are you running with?? Be honest.
Also, how many hours per day do you scan?

Phantasm | Siegfried Tahl | Killmail

I too love laserboats, and I too would prefer Legion, but Phantasm is the next best thing. Took my Legion to null and WH tho.

I just can imagine how T3Cs would be OP and totally dominate if let run highsec sites.

I’ve been doing combat explo for 2-3 hrs a day at the time of that discussion. Having a break from Eve now.

@Layla_Cross

I run dual armor repair fit for tanking purposes.

This and shield booster on top of it is a total overkill for any DED in highsec (still not enough for Trigs solo thou), makes your ship lack speed and dps and thus unable to compete.

[Layla_Cross]

@Mkikaden_Tiragen

You cited getting beaten in contest by a VNI as evidence that the T3Cs would not be OP in these sites. The counter argument is that you were beaten not because the VNI is ‘better’ than your ship, but because the pilot applied blitzing mechanics more effectively than you did.

What’s your point? You basically pointing out VNI among other ships are capable of deploying blitzing mechanics. So by saying that, you agree that other ships are just as capable as a T3? Which is my point all along. It all comes down to the players individual skills, ability & knowledge. So why still restrict a T3, because It can scan a site a few seconds faster and is versatile?

@Mkikaden_Tiragen

Aside from convenience for you: what value does allowing T3Cs into these sites add for the game as a whole?

Back when these restrictions were first implemented, you couldn’t swap out ship fits on the fly without docking, now you can. So aside from the T3’s being able to scan a site maybe 20/30 seconds faster that it’s competitors there really isn’t much of a difference since most ships can now swap out fits on the fly making it just as versatile. T3’s are good at many things but masters of none. Whereas s a T2 cruiser can specialise in raw combat but can swap a fit for basic scanning. And of course the convenience for paying omega pilots, may also encourage others to upgrade their alpha status with is a benefit for CCP and the future funding/development of Eve.

@Mkikaden_Tiragen

in fact, you have presented arguments that would favor further restricting eligible ship classes, not opening them further.

This is true and even though I wouldn’t get to use a T3 this would still make more sense than the current rules. It really baffles me I can take a heavy assault cruiser in but not a T3. If these restrictions were for the benefit of newer pilots, where is the logic in still allowing advanced ships in?

[Xeux]

Nobody can really claim that a Legion looks better than a Phantasm. The OP should just upgrade to the best looking ship in the game.

[Layla_Cross]

Old habits die hard

[Derath_Ellecon]

@Xeux

Nobody can really claim that a Legion looks better than a Phantasm. The OP should just upgrade to the best looking ship in the game.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder Personally I how the legion looks.

[Xeux]

Are you talking about this ship? It looks like a channel lock plier.

[Layla_Cross]

OK so how about this, instead of lifting the restrictions on ded 3/4 sites, perhaps CCP can make some new explorer content, I don’t mind getting paid in LP or something. I just feel like the career path needs some new vigor!

[Derath_Ellecon]

Or mini avatar

[Xeux]

They still have different models for the subsystems? I thought CCP got rid of that to make skins easier.

[Derath_Ellecon]

yea they still change. skins and all

[Owen_Levanth]

@Xeux

Are you talking about this ship? It looks like a channel lock plier.

Now that’s unfair and you know it. T3Cs are so variable in how they can look, you can make an ugly one for all four of them. (This one isn’t even too bad. Personally, I dislike the mini-avatar look more.)

If you want ugly T3Cs, look to the Loki. I’m forever cursed to use a HAM-Loki for example, because all other subsystem-combinations make the ship look weird. The projectile subsystem is the worst, it makes all Lokis with them look like someone threw a crowbar into space. Ugh. (With the other three T3Cs, I’ve found a lot more combinations that work for me.)

On the thread matter, how about a compromise? We open DED 3 and DED 4 sites for T3Cs, but only in Low/Null. This way, you can at least have some risk with your rewards.

[DeMichael_Crimson]

Actually T3 Cruisers have been nerfed a couple of times now since the time when CCP implemented the DED 3/10 & 4/10 restriction.

Not to mention the amount of Cosmic Signature Combat sites, loot drops, Faction Commander and Escalation spawns have also been severely nerfed over the years as well. And those who say they currently make billions of ISK per week doing High Sec exploration are either in-game exploring 24/7 or are just plain lying. More than likely it’s the latter.

Despite all of the nerfs done, T3 Cruisers still lose a skill level from one of the sub-systems when destroyed…

Also all this talk of how allowing T3 Cruisers into DED 3/10 & 4/10 sites isn’t fair to New Players, Alpha’s or others who don’t use T3 Cruisers for exploration is just a load of crap. Those players can pay for a subscription and train the required skills to use a T3 Cruiser like those of us with T3 Cruisers have done.

Lastly in my opinion the replies and attitude presented by CSM Brisc Rubal in this thread tells me he’s just a CCP shill and a mouthpiece for Null Sec Alliance interests, doesn’t represent the playerbase as a whole and definitely not the interests of High Sec players.

[Owen_Levanth]

Thinking about it, T3Cs could use some more restrictions. We really need to keep those HighSec-newbies save from their menace.