PvE Exploration Restrictions on T3

As someone who does exploration, it is this.

There is such variety in ships this contention is nonsensical. And I’ve already shown it is not true. Even the legion. That you don’t wish to believe it is on you.

I love the legion as well. But it is not antique nor obsolete.

The main issue is that his whole thread is basically you being upset your favorite ship can’t do content you want it to do, and then trying to craft an argument around that to justify your position. Sadly it just doesn’t work.

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You make it sound like I’m crying and taking a tantrum. I assure you it’s neither. If the changes happen then that’s great, if not then it’s no surprise really… If anything I would be shocked that changes would be approved.

And yes I want my favourite ship to do the content I want it to but as I keep saying, ships equal to or above can already do so. No matter what way you look at it, dissect it that renains a fact.

Lighten up, Francis.

You’ve said this a few times, but then you’ve also complained that other things were introduced into the game that are more lucrative, fewer people are doing exploration because of it, and you complained about loot not being good enough.

Either you do this content because you like doing it, or you’re doing it to generate wealth. You can’t keep saying “it’s not about the isk” and then complain over and over again about things that are directly related to isk.

As I said in the beginning - it seems to me that you’re asking for a mechanics change because you want to fly a ship you want to fly, doing something you want to do, but you don’t want to go to the place that you can do that because it’s too risky. That’s not a good argument to make for changing these mechanics, and it appears self-serving at best. That’s why you’re getting the response you’re getting.

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I guess I wasn’t being clear enough regarding those points.

What I was getting at is, because there are means to make isk doing other things, exploring is more of a recreational hobby, less and less pilots are partaking in that career path. If this is the case, why restrict it? (if it’s possible from CCP, I would love to see the statistics of active explorer over the last 5 years)

Just let us hobbyists run exploration the way we like, in the grand scheme of things, nothing much is going to change.

Someone said that it would saturate the market, I would disagree because loot drop chances are so low in High Sec you would have to be playing all day every day to make it worth while and I work full time so at best can only invest a few hours per week.

Citation needed. There are still plenty of explorers. If anything, especially in the popular areas, sites are more competitive than ever.

Except that it’s not. As I have explained ad nauseum at this point, there is no other ship class with the utter flexibility as T3C. They can be fit to compete with the scanning and hacking bonuses of covert ops ships and in under 2 minutes can be completely reconfigured in space via mobile depot for pure DPS which can rival many of the other ship choices in HS.

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Dude again we’re not talking about the flexibility of the T3, a T2 cruiser or heavy assault cruiser is just as capable to scan and run sites if not better than a T3. (in terms of clearing speeds before you pick at this) Why refit a T3 for null/low/WH when you’re exploring in high sec? Flexibility is a mute point.

What’s your source, I would be interested in seeing these numbers. I admit I don’t have statistics but based on my personal experience, i don’t run into too many explorers. Maybe 2 or 3 per day compared to 2 or 3 per site a few years ago.

My source is as good as yours, my experience roaming around scanning/hacking/ etc.

Except it is the critical part. If I can be setup for scanning, so I have those bonuses, and get locks on sigs much faster (which I do) I can literally be reconfigured and on grid clearing before the unbonused ship has finished scanning.
And I know this because I sometimes roam around just hacking so I’m using a covert ops (or T3C cause I’m not bothering with the DED sites anyway). Otherwise I’m using an Ishtar and the difference in scanning is noticable.

Just because YOU don’t feel the need to fly your Legion this way does not negate the bonuses the ships have in their flexibility.

Well not all us can sit at home playing games all day because I usually don’t have any issues unless I’ve travelled half way across high sec to get an appropriate ship to enter said sites.

Yes and no, my legion does not super speed clear sites and all to often a Vexor comes in and kill steals my commander so I beg to differ. You’ll only scan a site by maybe 1 or 2 probe sizes faster than a non bonused ship, any expert scanner will tell you that. It’s already been mentioned by a member here in this thread.

Maybe you feel like you’re running sites faster than people can contest it, because there just isn’t that many explorers left in High Sec.

Yea it must be nice. I run a small business and am a father. I’m lucky if I can get eve time daily.

Just because you are bad at combat doesn’t reflect on the ship.

Which can make a major difference. Getting a lock at like 4AU vs 1AU can mean I get a lock on multiple sigs at once, if they are close to each other, where the unbonused ship is spending multiple cycles more.

I had 2 contests last week. Won them both.

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Does it date me that I’ve spent countless quarters on that game in the arcades? And not like some retro arcade these days. The original when it came out.

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Check you out! So do I but I don’t go bragging about it and I’m not going to post my Ltd company details on a game forum!

Why does this make me bad at combat? I’ll have you know all my gunnery, engineering, electronics, Shields and armor skills are pretty mutch maxed out. My character is more than capable to run combat sites.

Yeah maybe 20 seconds worth of a difference and combat sites never spawn in close proximity to each other.

Good job, we’re you flying a T2? Better than a T3 in combat right!?

It isn’t your character’s skills that are in question when it comes to your contest losses. It is your own ability that is a potential fault for your experience. Knowledge of how to efficiently run the sites, and the personal capabilities to apply that knowledge, go a long way to determining who will win a contested site. If you are losing your sites to other pilots, the answer is not allowing T3Cs to run the content - it is improving your competence as a player to be effective in that situation with the ships you can use to complete the sites.


Did you seriously just say that to a 9 year vet!? Mate, Eve in High Sec is mostly point a click, no skill required. Except from having a capable ship and knowledge which there is plenty of websites out there to tell you all you need to know.

For the most part, I loose a site because drones out range me, Warrior 2’s Hobgoblin 2’s are a Lot faster than my AB fitted lasor T3 boat. By the time I’ve gotten in range the drones have done enough damage to secure the commander kill even if I do get a hit on it.

This debate is going in circles and many of you are sidestepping around facts and nit picking on things that should not be held accountable for example.

The flexibility of a T3, you wouldn’t fit a T3 for null sec covops when exploring in HS! So please stop using that as an argument against it.

There are ships equal to or better than the T3 that are capable of scanning and running high sec combat sites such as Stratios and T2/Assault cruisers. No matter what way you look at it, this remains true as pilots in eve are using those ships today!

T3 cruisers have bonuses to exploration but the difference between that and a regular ship in the hands of a competent pilot with appropriate fittings is negligible.

All in one ships are frowned upon but you can refit any ship in space effectively making that ship multipurpose.

High sec exploration payouts are significantly less than other PvE high sec content so why is the restrictions still in force?

The game is free to play, T3 is an omega ship, allow paying members to have an advantage of paying for membership is a very reasonable request.

When you think about it in context, it’s simple logic really…

It is because t3 ships like tengu loki were op in hi sec exploring before ccp shut them out… I use to run t3 back in the day when the likes of Johnny Pew and crowd were around.

My single tengu could scan and run all 3-5 combat sites without re-shipping.
Not super skilled either back then.

A gila or vexor had no hope of beating me to the can. Even if they popped the boss rat I could still steal the loot.

There are other ships just as good as the T3s like the jackdaw and crowd which are just as fast as the okd T3 cruisers.

I miss my old fit, but I adapted and still make as much isk and fun even now

This has been mentioned before, perhaps the Tengu and loki need nerfing then and not the current restrictions, my legion isn’t super OP in HS exploration.

One thing this game is good at, is showing that the amount of time spent playing does not always have a bearing on one’s skill.

So let’s take the hypothetical case where you could fit your T3 into a HS DED site. You scan it down, and see someone coming to run it at the same time as you. If I were you, in my Legion I’d be quickly refitting for combat (because yes, Id be rolling scan fit). And this time I’d refit to the heavy Beam lasers I keep with me. With the range bonus of the liquid crystal offensive sub my beams now can reach 90KM.

I don’t even care if the other guy got a head start. He has to clear the first 2 rooms to proceed through, and the only important kill is the commander in the last room. So I have plenty of refit time and now have the range to get the kill on the commander before his drones reach it.

As a T3 I will also have more tank generally than those who are competing with me so I can just blast through the rest of the rats to scoop the loot.

For one, you keep saying this without any data to back it up. There is still plenty of isk that can be made in HS exploration. One poster here countered with an example. And what is all this other HIGH ISK content? Incursions? They were introduced 10 years ago, and require a fleet for good payouts. Can’t really compare that to solo exploration. Missions? They haven’t changed much since the game came out. Some new content with burners, but overall missioning is considered not that profitable, unless you are dedicated to maxing it out, which is tedious work. Invasions? I haven’t seen them being the OP isk making either. They also mostly involve a fleet. Yes there were the random sites that would spawn. People made lots of isk on them for a bit, until the market was saturated with materials from them.

But aside from all that, the T3 restrictions were not there due to profitability. They are there too keep content appropriate to their difficulty. Much like missions that have ship restrictions. That hasn’t changed. HS exploration always has, and continues to be a great new player profession. What it doesn’t need is old vets like us in our blingy high end ships ruining it because we are too lazy to move on to the better content.

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Dude you are seriously a Thorn in my side. I don’t need data to backup my claim. Go look on you tube regarding abyssal sites… You’re trying to tell me you can make more isk exploring?? I laugh in your face!

Yes someone made a claim of the ISK that can be made by exploring but they didn’t say anything about drop chances and I know its very low! You’re more likely to get sh*tty loot like faction ammo over something that can sell for 100m isk. Even the CSM has acknowledged that there are better ways to make isk in HS.

So you’re saying you can see a player in room one when you’re in the last one? And you’re not the only one who can refilt, your argument is flawed at best.

Yeah maybe so when it comes to PVP content but point and click?? Are you just arguing with me now just for the sake of it?? Are you that invested in this debate that you feel like you need to defeat me in some way?? You’re using the same arguments over and over and consistently side step hard facts I’ve posted several times over.

That’s partly my point though, ships restricted to their difficulties, so a battlecruiser/heavy assault ship T2 cruisers etc is not restricted but a T3 cruiser is? That argument doesn’t make sense!

And yet, this is exactly the reason you keep losing to drone boats.

Why AB fit? Use MWD. Why pulse and not beam lasers? With beams you can easily reach targets at 110 km. There are no targets that far in highsec combat explo sites though, except Serpentis Watch. At 60 km you can even have decent 390 dps. If you start applying immediately as you land you can outdps drone boats before their drones reach the target. Its not last hit claims the can but most damage dealt.

BTW How do you scan sites? All skills at V or even some IVs let you go 4AU - 1 AU - 0.25AU skipping one step each time.

Unrated sites Watches and Vigils have their triggers and spawns at exact same spots every time and you can start burning for the spot as soon as you land on grid to be there when commander spawns.

Do you align and pre-accelerate on gates to instawarp on room clear?

Do you use Warp speed Rigs and modules, Ascendancy implants? I’d say warp speed is essential in combat exploration. You’re in warp more than clearing sites.

Come to Forge, Citadel, Black Rise or Lonetrek. Try to find uncontested Gurista Den. Then see how long before competition comes in. At least 1 visitor every time. If you came in first they will leave most of the time, but damn needy Tengus and Orthruses always try to steal it.

Here are some of my stats. Eight Pithum C-type Multispectrum Shield Hardeners (invulns) per month with 10-15% drop rate constituted 50% of my monthly income at the time. It’s something around 90 Gurista Scout Outpost 4/10 sites per month, or 3 per day, or 1 per hour on average.

The price of this module dropped significantly since, also Ghost and Drone sites loots went really-really meh, so it may not be 7-8 bil/month anymore for me.

You can dive in T5 Abyss from highsec, but it’s not really highsec content, is it? Also in this case high payouts imply much much higher risk and skill requirement, far from