Pvp + Pve = PVP-E?

[Kaylee_Rayl]

@Salt_Foambreaker

Your putting so much work into this. But it is fundamentally unworkable. I could just tell you why but you won’t take my word for it. I would suggest reading up on PvP Queues, if you google for PvP Queue on various other games you should find tons of things.

Especially problems with queue volume and:

• Match Making
• Prime Time
• Stacking
• Premades

Then think about how and who and when it will work.

Right now there is a lot of times not enough volume of players in 1 person Abyss to trigger a battle.

Hmm you bring about good points. I shall read upon those and re-evaluate my OP. Thank you for your input.

[Kaylee_Rayl]

@JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE

Here is the reverse: lets add something to get all those pvp people to pve instead.

Sound stupid?

It sounds stupid the other way around too. It is grossly egocentric of you to believe that what you do in the game is the right way to play EVE and what pve players do is wrong or sub-par gaming. Eve is what an individual wants from the game not what YOU want others to do.

Should my OP be a implemented, it is not meant to ‘force’ you or anyone into using it. Alike the thousand of anomalies that stay untouched daily, you may as well do same with the X-site.

@JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE

You and other people that have expressed similar ideas (sadly, including CCP itself) completely misunderstand pve players. We aren’t inferior to you, we don’t play EVE thinking that pve is an inferior way to play EVE and we certainly don’t need your egotistic butt telling us we need ‘converted’ to pvp because we’d be so much more happy doing something we hate!

Hmm you definitely seem pissed at some agendas (which I cannot seem to figure out), did I offend you in any way at some point? Or you just cannot find mature argument to bring forward?

The X-site is not meant to abase Pve’ers, quite the opposite actually, to ‘empower’ new bros into the Pvp segment.

Please, if you cannot approach the idea with constructive criticism, please piss off. Thank you.

[Kaylee_Rayl]

@Nysta_Miityew

The thing is if you’re into PvE you’ll never find lack of content. Relic sites aren’t going to warp away once you get near, but PvP-avoiding players will. If what you find fun is PvP then there’s a chance you log in and won’t actually find it. I can understand why people who love to PvP get upset to see so many people choosing to avoid it. It is literally removing what they find fun from the game. That is why people who like PvP want to encourage others to take part

Understood @Nysta_Miityew nice mind opening comment. Personally I’m both, Pve’er and Pvper, and your explanation does make sense, as someone else mentioned yesterday, that the site should be accessible to most, I think you thoughts is aligned to theirs. So thanks mate, I shall try best to meet those requirements.

[Kaylee_Rayl]

@Elena_Laskova

But the current crop of “PvP players” almost never suggest changes that would make the combat PvP side game interesting to others. The only thing they consistently ask for is more victims for one-sided PvP.

Noted @Elena_Laskova considering my OP, do propose what would make it interesting for the Pve’er vs Pvp. And if ever possible, I will try to make the most of it. Sure null sec mechanics might not align well, but anyways, do think about it and give me a few snippets that could be done. Thanks.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Kaylee_Rayl

I’m proposing a new type of gameplay interaction, mainly aimed at encouraging PVE players to accept PVP into their everyday life as a capsuleer.

I’m not sure if this is necessary. If the game offers PVE opportunities while also allowing PVP to happen, we will automatically see people who make use of the PVP opportunities to jump on the people that PVE.

And in a game like EVE, PVE players should always accept PVP as a possibility when they undock.

[Kaylee_Rayl]

@BIade_Runner

I find very touching this kind o pleas for more cannon fodder… Sadly, if not even alpha clones change not brought to them, hardly i find anymore sources of lambs.

An alternative will be A.I. simulated players, aka a more advanced kind of bot with simulated emotion who can emulate all spectrum of affective responses from their human counterparts like grief, tears, whining and even hate mails.

That will stimulate pvp-ers to compulsive kill them, providing content and distraction from killing real human newbs, and giving them some breathing time to grow as a new generation of players.

Eitherway @BIade_Runner you’re either pro or con for the OP. Please state the views of each side - if you have any to put forward. Otherwise, please refrain from posting far fetched ideos. Thanks

[Kaylee_Rayl]

@Gerard_Amatin

I’m not sure if this is necessary. If the game offers PVE opportunities while also allowing PVP to happen, we will automatically see people who make use of the PVP opportunities to jump on the people that PVE.

And in a game like EVE, PVE players should always accept PVP as a possibility when they undock.

True, but in the X-site (being in high sec) both Pve’ers and Pvp’ers know for sure they’re up for a fight. There would be no doubt about it. So the X-site contestant would be ready for the action, and fit accordingly.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Kaylee_Rayl

True, but in the X-site (being in high sec) both Pve’ers and Pvp’ers know for sure they’re up for a fight. There would be no doubt about it. So the X-site contestant would be ready for the action, and fit accordingly.

That’s a good point, and it would be nice to have something ingame that combines both PVP and PVE.

However, one of the things I love in EVE is that the PVP isn’t arranged by the game, it’s a result of a free format for players to shoot eachother and player choice to organize themselves. Arenas and a PVP site like this feel too much like ‘arranged PVP’ for my liking.

[Kaylee_Rayl]

@Gerard_Amatin

However, one of the things I love in EVE is that the PVP isn’t arranged by the game, it’s a result of a free format for players to shoot eachother and player choice to organize themselves. Arenas and a PVP site like this feel too much like ‘arranged PVP’ for my liking.

Ah thanks for underlining this I’ll have to give it some more thoughts. In the meantime, I have come with a few ideas how to keep the battle spontaneous and not arranged. Thank you for your feedback, much appreciated. Also keep following.

[elitatwo]

@Gerard_Amatin

If the game offers PVE opportunities while also allowing PVP to happen, we will automatically see people who make use of the PVP opportunities to jump on the people that PVE.

I believe we used to have this already in the game and it used to be called “combat anomaly”.

Basically one would see an anomaly on the probe scanner window with a green line on it and you could warp to it and kill anyone running it.

Then this happened:

CCP invented Sotiyos.

Now you can not warp to combat anomalies or you accidentally run (not) into either the bot-super-duper-capital that warped away or you ran into not a bot-super-duper and a cyno opens and you wake up in high or lowsec somewhere with a huge headache.

[JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE]

I approached your suggestion with constructive criticism, it is just that you dont like my opinion, there is a HUGE difference between those to things.

To state it again, pve players dont need ‘converted’ into pvp players, just like pvp players dont need converted to pve players.

We pve players are not stupid, we COULD find pvp if so desired, it is so easy to find EVE pvp that ultimately EVE pvp finds you, whether you are looking for it or not.

Your belief that a person’s core essence (meaning a pve person can be converted into a pvp person) is blatantly naive. If someone finds pvp enjoyable they will find and participate in EVE pvp (this assumes that the boring brand of pvp EVE offers would even be enjoyable to them).

If, on the other hand, a person is at their essence is a pve player, like myself, than even 8 months of the best pvp EVE has to offer, will not change my core essence as a person, you simply cannot do this via a video game gimmick. Since the fundamental essence of your goal isn’t even possible, then implementing your idea will never achieve its stated goal and so your suggestion is reduced to a waste of DEV time.

A bad idea that gets implemented and is ‘optional’ is still a bad idea, and yes your ‘AGENDA’ of pve to pvp conversion is so wrong headed, on so many levels, that it simply must be bashed and bashed HARD!

[Buoytender_Bob]

Two main concerns:

1. How do you prevent middle/large corps from farming the sites, a real possibility since you want significant loot/isk/LP rewards? They can supply an endless number of alphas and donate to their main or corp afterwards.

2. How do you prevent above corps from gaming the match making part of your proposed plan? Salt was right on target with his concerns. I know from other MMOs that the match maker can be gamed sometimes to the advantage of group players vs solo ones. Getting an active, but fair match queue is difficult.

[Kaylee_Rayl]

@Buoytender_Bob

Two main concerns:

1. How do you prevent middle/large corps from farming the sites, a real possibility since you want significant loot/isk/LP rewards? They can supply an endless number of alphas and donate to their main or corp afterwards.

Yes, I believe they will try to farm it (being a Pve site), I’m not really trying to prevent that from happening. And if they do supply endless number of alphas, I believe that there will still be a few hundreds of ‘real’ alphas / new bros (monthly) who’d want to try their hands at the X-site.

@Buoytender_Bob

2. How do you prevent above corps from gaming the match making part of your proposed plan? Salt was right on target with his concerns. I know from other MMOs that the match maker can be gamed sometimes to the advantage of group players vs solo ones. Getting an active, but fair match queue is difficult.

Yours and Salt’s arguments have been noted, I’ll give it a deeper thought and come with some probable solution later the week (if my mind don’t explode by then ). But unlike Salt mentioned, I’m more likely have the X-site follow the trend of PvP-E content (alike the incursions video in post 28) than Abyssal sites.

[Kaylee_Rayl]

@JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE

If, on the other hand, a person is at their essence is a pve player, like myself, than even 8 months of the best pvp EVE has to offer, will not change my core essence as a person, you simply cannot do this via a video game gimmick. Since the fundamental essence of your goal isn’t even possible, then implementing your idea will never achieve its stated goal and so your suggestion is reduced to a waste of DEV time.

A bad idea that gets implemented and is ‘optional’ is still a bad idea, and yes your ‘AGENDA’ of pve to pvp conversion is so wrong headed, on so many levels, that it simply must be bashed and bashed HARD!

you’re cute. Thank you for your input.

[Salt_Foambreaker]

@Elena_Laskova

Unsurprisingly, there are few volunteers to be the victim of one-sided PvP.

No way, The River Fodder has flowed without running dry for 16 years and will for another 16 years.

People are breeding care bears like mad!!

[Kaylee_Rayl]

I’m still alive and well. Will post new stuffs in here soon™ just a very busy (RL) week. Later o7

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Elena_Laskova

• Unsurprisingly, there are few volunteers to be the victim of one-sided PvP.

I expect there is a huge amount of volunteers for being victim of one-sided PVP, if:

1. The chance of one-side PVP isn’t 100% certain - the player knows he has a chance (based on his own skills) to make it out alive
2. There are big rewards if the volunteer makes it out alive

As long as people can expect to make enough money 4 out of 5 to more than pay for their loss the 5th run, a lot of people are willing to keep going into PvP danger zones as potential victim.

I remember another game where people didn’t like the ‘food chain’ idea of PVP everywhere and rich PVE rewards for people who are willing to risk the PVP danger to get those PVE rewards. It was the wilderness in RuneScape and last time I checked it was completely dead now. EVE on the other hand is exactly what I was looking for in that wilderness: a rich world with a lively PVP ecosystem, a food chain consisting of people who do PVE, people who hunt the PVEers and people who are looking for other PVPers to fight.

If you put PVPers together in an area that has no PVE value, the area will die because people have no reason to actually be there. But if there is a PVE value, lots of people will be willing to be the victim of one-sided PVP as long as the rewards are big enough.

[M_Cincinnatus]

Another aspect of PvP in EVE that seems to get overlooked, and may be one of the bars to many “PvErs”, is that asset loss is much higher than most other games. And I’m not just talking about the isk value of the ship lost, I’m also talking about the time lost due to having to shop for a new ship+fit as well.

Having to do maybe a 20 minute round trip from your base to the nearest trade hub in order to re-ship and refit is tedium in the extreme and a constant reminder of isk lost during the whole trip. All the while thinking that in those last 20 min could have done an Abyss run or a short agent mission and made isk. For people that perhaps have an hour per day to play, that time is supremely precious.

Perhaps a way to help entice such time-constrained “PvErs”, would be to spawn a “mini-market” near this special site. The idea here being that a player can fly their own ship into the site, or they can make a pit-stop and quickly purchase from a selection of PvP ships already pre-fitted and ready to be flown into the site.

It could be NPC-stocked with a selection of pre-fit PvP ships at fair market value. However, this could be a massive isk sink, where perhaps too much isk permanently leaves the game, and of course has repercussions on the player market.

The better alternative would be for the “mini-market” to be stocked by players, either pre-fit ships or unpackaged ships and modules, along with the shareable fittings for the selections. This would open up another PvP aspect as well, as in piracy against the merchants making deliveries. However, at least a couple problems arise as in, does the site despawn, and what would happen to unsold merchandise if it did? And although time-constrained players may be willing to pay a high premium for delivered ships, would there still be enough motivation for merchants to make the trip, and what happens if merchants do not show up often enough?

Regardless of whether the “mini-market” idea works or not, I didn’t see a timer mechanism for the site in the OP, however I do think some sort of time-limit on the contest would be helpful for time-constrained pilots to make informed decisions on if they can participate or not.

[Elena_Laskova]

Good point Cincinnatus (BTW - what does the M stand for, if anything?)

You should explain the concept or "Opportunity Cost to the guy who I graded 2/10 in another thread for failing to do so

I’m not sure if other players will go for it, but I’d definitely like the ability to get a replacement ship locally (and hence quickly), even if it was a “cookie cutter” standard design.

Even better if they could be paid for by providing resources elsewhere (with a penalty to reflect that it bypasses the market). E.g. get blown up, check out a standard ship, designate a place (personal storage) where the game collects raw materials to cover the ISK cost of the standard ship (with say a 30% price penalty because it would bypass the market).

The game could buy the ships from the market (an easy way to balance ISK and resources that would “disappear”) so the process wouldn’t interfere significantly with existing player manufacturing activities.

[Hayduke_Artrald]

Is this not accomplished in faction warfare, proving grounds within abyssal space, and really anywhere in Eve?