I don’t really think the two are related.
I think getting rid of stabs (and blocking ventures) is a great idea.
I also think the levels of plexes should be changed somewhat.
Novice - T1 frigates only (no pirate).
Small - T1 destroyers and all frigates
Medium - T1 cruisers (no pirate) and all destroyers and frigates
Large - T1 BC and all smaller ships.
XL - open like the large are now.
Obviously if pirate destroyers or BC are added… they’d go to the next level up too.
Pirate ships are a big part of the meta. You can also counter them with half of their value in t1 ships; they are not cheap. Winning them also comes with its reward, as they are often faction fit. The loot drop alone could net you more than many completed complexes.
Why leave them out? They wouldn’t do as good at all with anything that can fit within a plex size above it. They will fall to the way side, just like when t3d’s were allowed inside smalls.
Stop being afraid of them and fight them. Or outsmart them.
As for being dropped in by third parties, who’s fault is that? That’s like being mad that someone rushed into your fight in the middle of Old Man Star. Keep an eye on local and dscan.
Blocking pirate faction frigates would solve this problem. A Venture is a pirate frigate on paper.
Fairly sure I could kill that griffin with a 1 day old alpha with no implants
Not sure an incursus and a garmur are too good a comparison I mean a common fits for garmur and incursus the incursus would win if it managed to tackle the garmur, Although there may be a case for banning pirate frigs from novice those statistics are kind of meaningless.
I am thinking of what to put that Coreli mwd on. Maybe I’ll sell it.
This happened in a novice btw
The point is look at the ships I listed. Look at their hard stats. A Garmur, a typical pirate ship, is easily on par with most T2 faction frigates. All pirate faction ships have double bonus and a hull bonus. All T2 ships have double bonus and a hull bonus. All T1 ships have a SINGLE bonus with a hull bonus.
I fight everyone with my FW alt. T1 on T1 battles are fun. T1 vs Pirate… usually aren’t (at least for those in T1’s).
I view FW as introductory PvP. I prefer there to be restrictions that keep things fairly evenly matched in plexes. Pirate ships kind of break that.
I understand that you may view it differently. That’s just how I look at it.
I think you’re ignoring other data. Look at the base shield, armor and hull of these ships. A lot of them are actually pretty squishy.
On the other hand, take a look at a comparison between a worm and a Gila. Look at that 300% bonus on light drones dmg and hit points for light drones. Then take a look at the Gila having 500% to a MEDIUM drone dmg and hit points!!! A worm has a drone bandwidth of 10 and a bay for 25m3. That’s 2.5 sets of drones. Gila has a bandwidth of 20 and a bay for 100m3. 5 sets of drones it can let out. A choice of any damage type and even an extra set.
You can definitely defang a worm. A Gila? Don’t even waste your time. Each drone has as much ehp as a high dps Daredevil.
Imo, Gila is broken AF, but the rest are very engageable with ships half their total worth and without the element of surprise or hard counters.
Ok… lets take apples and compare to apples…
Merlin T1 - 310m/s 1250hp (not EHP just total shield+armor+struc)
Worm T1Pirate- 320m/s 1950hp
Hawk T2- 322m/s 1828hp
Harpy T2- 312m/s 2070hp
Hookbill Navy T1- 360m/s 1875hp
The Merlin has 2 skill based hull bonuses. 5% damage 4%resist per frigate level. 394k Jita
The Worm has 2 skill based bonuses, and 1 hard hull bonus.
10% damage +4% resist per frigate level Gal/Cal + 300% LT Drone damage and hp. (which effectively gives it 6 light drones)… 56mil Jita
Harpy, 10% + 10% optimal 4% resist shields per level + 5% damage 50% reduction in MWD sig. No drones… 41mil Jita
Hawk, 10% damage, 5% rate of fire, 10% velocity, 7.5% shield booster. 50% reduction in MWD sig… no drones. 33.7mil Jita
Hookbill Navy, 25% damage, 25% therm+EM+kinetic damage, 10% velocity. NO drones… 13mil Jita price.
There is no way a Merlin is anywhere NEAR the level of a Worm or a Navy Hookbill. Which are at worst T1.5 ships at best T2 ships.
So you are trying to tell me a noob who can barely afford to fly a Merlin, average fit about 5-7mil. Is even going to stand a chance against anyone who can afford a 56mil Worm, or even a 13mil Hookbill Navy?
I think your premise relies on too many assumptions. The price of the Hookbill, for example, given when the squids are currently riding tier 5. Also, what is keeping a noob from flying a navy frigate? Nothing. The skill requirements are the same as t1.
Stop trying to take the hill against the gatling gun with your muzzle loader. Fly smarter. These ships have as many weaknesses as they have advantages.
If a child wants to come to the playground, he should be prepared for the kind of kids he’s going to be playing with. FW is not a padded corners dare care for babies. Rise to the challenges.
Keep in mind this is a NOVICE plex.
It’s more like a child going to a playground for kids 5 and under and getting bullied by a 12 year old. NOVICE plexes suggest they are for… NOVICES. A person “new or inexperienced”. Not so much for a faction fit worm pilot.
If you are rocking a navy frigate then you are no longer a noob in my book.
And there are no assumptions in my above example. It is just hard numbers. NO skill factor, no player skill variable, no situation. Just dead even 1v1 no rigs no nothing.
It’s not for me to make apologies for the naming scheme of complexes. How misleading a ‘novice’ plex is. CCP obviously doesn’t want things to be easy here, if this proposed change in this post is any indication of what they expect from FW.
This is factional warfare. A war. Aside from worrying about your enemies, there are wild bedouins and rogues everywhere that also wanna take your ****.
No noob should be poor in FW. One small outpost for the squids can get you three hookbills. 15 minutes.
If you want to duel with reapers and velators, do it in high sec.
I think the fact that they don’t allow T2 ships in the Novice plex suggests that CCP does want it to be for novices. Otherwise there’s no reason not to allow them in the “war zone”.
It is ship restricted already for a reason. That reason is balancing the fights and allowing newer players a path into PvP. If your view were accurate, T2’s would be allowed.
It’s a wonder anyone can get around in these forums without tripping over all of the dead horses.
Were you around when the t3d’s were released and allowed to enter smalls? Assault frigates lost their place in the warzone and were no longer used. T3d was king of the smalls. Do you know that t3c’s are not allowed in mediums, but that t2 cruisers are? Why do you suppose that is?
Your argument is based on the WRONG idea to balance, based on the weakest possible factor, not on two pilots that are experienced enough to put the available tools to use.
I got a garmur kill in fleet, but it wasn’t the best example. Fate brought another one to me and still you refuse to see it. I could have done that without the slasher. We catch garmurs with comets all the time. I’ve fought worms with an incursus and a rail comet, back before they lost a low slot. The complex meta is better than ever, but your change will weaken it, not make it better.
If you say so. I went to zkill and looked at solo dramamiel losses in lowsec. Not a single loss to a T1 frigate in the last 3 days.
43 kills by dramamiels over T1 frigates in the same period of time.
So… goodfights?
you’re talking about a frigate that is notorious for its ability to warp quickly and slip away against most things in a 1v1. It has speed and capless guns and avoids things that are likely dual webbed.
Fit snakes, a faction web and prop, chug some quafe, then complain about it if you’re still struggling. Pilots that fly bling are using way more resources than the average pilot. That makes them multitudes better than someone who likely only bothers to bring faction ammo with them.
Your proposed change caters to rookie pilots at the guaranteed risk of upsetting many veteran pilots and hurting an entire lineup of great ships and great content. A short term solution for a few that ignores the long term investment of many.
Yes. It caters to rookie pilots in rookie plexes. vov
You think the people your change have affected will just mosey on down to do fighting in the smalls and mediums? They’re not. They’re stepping down to the next best thing in Astero, Comet’s and firetails, slicers or hookbills with the same bling and others will come again to complain about 20% damage bonuses.