that has nothing to do with what i said befor … you know that …
JuuR
In other words, you want citadels to be more accessible and more widely owned/used, right?
it’s a multi-player game as you said. ppl should have friends to gank/mine properly or at least in large scale
In what meaningful way have “independent citadel” actively contributed to “content”? I’d like to know specifics instead of just vague talking points.
No, I wrote what I want. Clearly enough. Now stop asking and read it again.
Citadels were a bad revolution that game did not need. CCP stumbles from worse to terrible.
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would be smart but if noone likes you you can play alone 
no J/K … i think EVE is more fun with otthers nd thats the plan CCP had with EVE … besides make money with it …
JuuR
that is not possible until multi-boxing and injectors are a thing
So you dont like citadels at all?
Who are Joe and Anne Sixpack? And why do they deserve special treatment?
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I am not suggesting that hunting of the large ships doesn’t already happen. What I’m suggesting is that more people would go hunting the big prizes than already do.
It’s not like nobody killed structures before - there are areas in highsec Minmatar space where I knew to simply not drop a structure because it would die. This was already happening. Abandonment dropped the number of structures (or rather increased the number of structures destroyed) because it turned on the 50% loot mechanic for everything in the structure rather than just what was fitted to the structure.
The asinine claim is that what they did to structures in highsec is even remotely comparable with the nerfing of rorqs. We know exactly what Rorqs did to the game - they unbalanced supply vs demand and became a one way ticket to being space-rich - structures (and especially high-sec structures) didn’t do that - I still agree that the bar to obtain one was too low, but they could have fixed that by simply raising the bar for every new one from date X. Instead, they turned around and screwed people over. The mechanics that they created for this “content” are also heavily broken and slanted towards the attackers.
Once the majority of highsec structures owned by anything smaller than megacorps are killed, the “content” that has been created is effectively dead. What are they going to do then? Go back to exactly where they were before. Sure, some ISK and resources will have left the game (the structures themselves, not the cores because theysell back to NPCs for 100% of the buy price, so it’s just isk transfer, not isk removal).
It’s fun the first few times. But on the 20th go (and yes, I’ve been there, because 2-3 highsec wardeccer corps have each had a few goes at your structures) you and your corp/alliance start to get defence fatigue.
Attacking forces only have to win three times in a row in as many attempts as they like. Defenders can only afford two losses in a row, ever.
I agree, at least in the way they were implemented.
Entirely possible - but sane people don’t fixed a bad idea by implenting a worse one.
I disagree. I don’t think more people would go hunting. We’re at peak hunting capacity, and have been since day 1 of EVE. This is because given the choice between killing a ship and not killing a ship, the former will be chosen nearly 100% of the time. If what you’re saying is true, then the impact will be so marginal that it’s statistically insignificant.
The net impact would’ve been the same, it’s just that it would’ve taken longer to get there.
There’s been a considerable reduction in structures, yes, but we’re not actually seeing complete removal in practice because even with cores, the ISK per hour just isn’t that great for a group of players. If you have to split a 600M (minus taxes and ammo costs) core let’s say 5 ways, that’s 120M per person per 3 appointments of at least 20 minutes each. And if the station is manned, you actually risk losing fairly expensive ships.
There are better, easier ways to make money.
Defenses that are largely useless - none of the AoE weapons work in highsec for example.
Structure defense fittings can run to billions of isk alone. Then there’s the cost of the ships for a defensive fleet (easily runs to billions for even a small fleet). Then there’s the diplomatic costs of bringing in allies.
Defenders no longer get to choose the days that defense occurs - only a window on the pre-determined days as set by when the shields go down. Dates of defenses are now defined by the attacker (by the day they choose to take down the shields)
They choose who they attack, they choose when they attack, they get to use defensive effort information to plan their next attacks, they can rainbow their attacks (attack 10 structures, kill two, that’s a win), and they can attack at will, with no limits other than their own fatigue (which is largely managed through the fact that they keep taking structures down).
The very fact that there are so many highsec structures dying only goes to show that the balance currently sits with the attackers.
Clone mechanics have been broken since the day the game was released. I’ve been playing long enough to remember medical clones and having to upgrade your medical clones unless you wanted to lose skill points when you got podded.
The fact that you have to wait 24 hours to jump again after using an NPC clone bay has always been stupid, and remains so to this day. They knew it was stupid, it’s why they introduced timer-free clone jumping inside of a player-owned structure. They knew that the limit of one clone per structure was stupid, they’ve just fixed that too. Now they’re unravelling their own fixes.
I totally understand recognising that something was broken - but that’s through no fault of the players who simply used the game mechanics as they were designed. I have no issue with changing things so that from today (for example), the way to do things is different - I have no issue at all with the new requirement of a core to place a NEW structure.
What I disagree with is punitive actions taken on players who’d done nothing wrong. Taking away structure functionality if you didn’t install a core was punitive.
It’s very much changed. Structure defence mechanics changed to reduce the “power” that structure owners had. Abandonment was introduced. I actually don’t mind cores being introduced as a “from today onwards, you need a core to deploy a structure”.
I don’t actually mind them adding an incentive to structure bashers - as long as there’s a counter of sorts added at the same time to maintain balance. That balance has not been kept.
If the goal was to reduce the number of highsec structures, that could easily have been achieved - increase the barrier to entry from today to slow down growth, give bashers an incentive to bash, but also give owners an incentive to decommission/
Nope.
You can’t use a moon-mining laser on anything other than a refinery, and nor can you do reactions in anything other than a refinery. As I understand it, you can’t manufacture capital or super-capital ships outside of an engineering complex.
CCP just said they’re going to make R4 moons more compelling - and yet they’ve made owning the mechanic required to make use of R4 moons a much less compelling proposition. I guess this is really where I take issue - there’s no consistency in the way the game’s being changed at present.
Not master of each role at all - do it without the bonuses to efficiency, cost or fuel block usage - hell, give them PENALTIES on fuel block usage. But at present, they cannot fulfil all roles at all.
For no apparent reason? No, the reason is to reduce structure spam, if that’s really what’s desired here.
Not in any meaningful way. Aside from faction/empire standings (easily gamed), one NPC market is the same as another other than where it sits in space. The same for reprocessing (noting you can’t compress), the same for industry.
Upwell Structures were never designed to have quantum cores. They were never designed to lose tethering, insurance and fitting services. Original design goals have never stopped CCP from changing things before (well, at least from trying to change things - we all know how well removing POSs went, and how well the changes to drone control went), why should it stop them now?
So give NPC stations differentiation within a range, with player-owned structures able to work at higher value ranges.
I don’t believe that structure ownership should be risk free, at all. I just think it needs to be better balanced than it is today.
If you can’t afford a station you don’t really need a station. There are great many NPC stations in HS to choose from.
No, but they reduced the functionality of the structure if you don’t have a core.
The problem that you’re refusing to address is that the change was unbalanced. I have no issue with increasing the risk, as long as the reward (or counters) are increased as well. You make my point for me next…
Rorqs are not forced to use Excavator drones - they can still use T2 (or T1) mining drones perfectly well. Excavator drones give improved performance over the alternatives, and with that improved performance comes increased risk - but even then, a Wetu Mobile Depot holds them all and is invulnerable for a period of time once the shields are taken out. I am completely OK with that - increased capability AND increased risk at the same time, and the ability to choose whether you want that increased capability (and thus risk) or not.
I spend most of my time in wormholes, lowsec and nullsec, and I’m not part of some gigantic blue donut, so I hardly qualify as a carebear. Lately I’ve been in highsec a lot helping a new corp get stuff done so they can survive, and it’s desolate. The fact that there are still tons of stations in nullsec is in direct contrast to what happened in highsec. Highsec is a place for anyone who wants to relax a little, for new people to learn a game with a notorious learning curve and those same people should be able to do things like deploy a station. The corp I’m helping wanted one untill I explained that it would be killed before they could even use it. Now I’m helping them get to a system that is on the other side of Trig gate camps which for them are instant death and podding. They are moving into lowsec, and it’s proving to be surprisingly tedious and agravating. Frankly they are making a mistake, industry is not going to be fun for them at all and doing it in NPC stations is likely to be a serious hinderance. If they could have set up their own station they might have managed to get ahead, but that’s not happening.
The last time I went on a tour of Goonspace (about a month ago) there were so many stations per system it made what people call structure spam in highsec look absurd. Not only were there insane numbers of them there were literally rows of keepstars surrounded by other large stations.
Yes, what ccp has done makes them more worth killing but the only people this effected were the small groups and new people. It wasn’t spam, the cans and depots are spam, the stations were people’s homes and represented a lot of work thought and effort and ccp came along and shat in the sandbox because of the usual bunch of squeaky whiners.
Ccp seems to me to have a propensity for listening to the extremely vocal minority and turning Eve from a sandbox to anything but. And that kind of crap is why after the first week people simply quit. There’s no sense of accomplishment when all you have done is died before you knew you were in a fight.
I know that for a fact, all of the people I’ve gotten to try Eve had exactly the same experience and didn’t like it. The one who lasted longer than a week quit because it was killing his eyes trying to squint at a UI made so small that microorganisms need better glasses. He said “it seemed like it could be fun, but everything takes to long and after a few hours of dying and not knowing why I had a terrible headache from eyestrain”.
That’s the problem, not someone owning a structure.
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It still takes plenty of effort for those that wanted a structure to have it, hours or work for many, that was their reward, now someone’s work is literally turned into a pinata because CCP did not account for the dedication of players to get that reward, now that reward is awarded to those folk who don’t normally spend hours toiling away.
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Quite literally, a lack of fuelled service modules was the requirement for a structure to be treated as “Abandoned” when CCP put the change in.
Incorrect in at least two ways.
Pods (except at Easter) drop nothing. Implants are 100% guaranteed NOT to drop. And yet podding is a regular occurrence.
And in other items, each item (or stack) in the hold (and each fitted module) individually have a 50% chance of dropping. That’s not the same as saying 50% of the items (or around 50% of the items) will drop. Yes, statistical pedantry that may be, but it’s also correct.
There were reasons, but not big ones. I get the fact that there wasn’t enough of a bonus to drive the behaviour as a valid option - but why not make the core a 50% drop instead of 100%, and have that go with all the fittings/service modules/fuel/ammo? I would not complain had they changed it to drop asset safety either in the same way they did with abandoned structures - we knew were were losing a Fort, and we spent the time required to empty it out. Provide a warning in-game to anyone with items stored (or jobs running, etc) in the structure to get them out, and if they ignore it, bad luck. You want the rewards of structure ownership or usage, great - there’s the risk.
The problem with the change is that they put ALL the upside on the attackers - defenders got NOTHING out of the change (or the abandoned state change before it, or the change to timers).
but thats the point of the game…
we use the word care bear and people think of cute bears with hearts on the belly but the word have other significant also
bears who CARE
the care part is really important
lets suppose you really care about your structure , and someone who doesn’t care at all will blow it away for profit or for the lulz
that generate a profoundly dangerous universe , and besides that create a very paranoid vibe on the owners of the strut , the care person
that may be a oppressive and sad reality but its also a unique one in most games and in line with the anarchic mad max like theme of the game
some pirate brutes will come and raid you, and kill you ,and take away your stuff
or some big power block will squash you like a bug
that said , wen you embrace the world and you manage to survive , and manage to be a part of it , you have a bigger reward than other more hand holding mmos
thats why eve have 15+ years , because no game have the ball to align the theme to the gameplay like it
a brutal world were if you die , you respawn and nothing happens to you… not so cool
thats also why we have NPE problems , not because new players doesn’t like EVE , but because some vocal part of new players lose a frigate to the dock workers and come here to talk bad things