I agree with this. It’s an oversight on my part to not mention pods. So, almost everything.
There is a tactical consideration to shooting (or not shooting) pods, but that’s external to this argument.
But I don’t agree with this. It’s indeed statistical pedantry, and 50% is 50% regardless of whether it’s an item or a stack. Over a large enough sample size, it will average out to 50% of value regardless.
My guess is that they balanced core costs around a certain income/effort ratio for attackers (it lies around 100M/hour for organized efforts, when you consider everything, including travel time, war/ammo costs, et cetera, and not just the raw amount of time spent shooting the structure).
Hypothetically, they could give cores the same 50% drop rate, but then they’d have to double core costs in order to keep income in line with their goal. Halving the drop rate but doubling the cost likely wouldn’t lead to any differences in the rates at which structures are being attacked, so keeping core costs low is actually a benefit for defenders.
If eve was brutal we would lose all our skills, start from the point we started at, the climb back up would be unattractive to most and CCP would lose players as only griefers would stay simply to kill others again and again, but it would be brutal AND it would have the secondary effect of having to band together in groups to survive and thrive or be brought to ruin again and again, that is brutal not what we have now.
Funny thing that absolutely no one is really interested in or pushing for is to make it so that if we get POD killed and they “salvage” our remains to get a core our of our dead clone that core could contain between 1,000 to 5,000 skill points, nothing ground breaking but make players a loot pinata for others and also make the player who got PODDED lose 5,000 sp, that would encourage some people to rampage in an effort to skill up but since people don’t know if that pinata is worth 1,000 or 5,000 and the person losing automatically loses 5,000 you won’t have people “farming” alts because it is not a guaranteed payout of 5,000 for 5,000.
The entire reason why they got rid of clone costs and SP loss was because they punished players for flying smaller ships that are easier to destroy in PvP. There’s no reason to go back to the old system - it sucked. If someone wants to face-tank fleets using interceptors all day, let them.
You can also look at it as pushing players to adapt because you know brutal.
And flying larger ships has it’s risks because of isk, players flying smaller ships fly in gangs for protection, both have reasons why they are good and bad.
Problem is the sandbox is not a sandbox if players are doctrine into styles of doing something because CCP decided to take away something someone worked for then make it so costly that now other players just doctrine up to go core farming, now people don’t have incentives to work for anything good because it will simply be taken away because CCP decided to paint targets on others for something they should have foreseen, the player base will do it if it exist, if it’s an endgame product or a product for groups then make it so from the get go.
You don’t actually ‘need’ a core. It doesn’t stop you from using the service modules. Just don’t slap it in. Your structure doesn’t go low power without it. If you can’t afford it, don’t put it in.
Isnt that the only example? Everything else, like the missiles, neuts, fighters, they all work.
Actually, if youre just looking at T1 structure defenses, each defensive module is like 50 million, so its relatively cheap. For example, a standup heavy energy neut has 100km range and costs like 70 million, which is very reasonable especially for its range and neut capabilities. Standup stasis webifier is like 20 million for a 200km range, 70% speed reduction system, which, again, is amazing.
Structure defense fittings are the most reasonably priced modules ever, compared to its abilities and range.
Sure. And the same goes for your enemies.
Well, no. You could make friends. Ive made friends and they would help me when i needed them and vice versa. I wont ask for isk when they ask for help either.
Its not CCPs fault you cant make friends.
No, you still control the days that the defense occurs.
You choose to place whatever many hours you want during the vulnerability times during the week.
The attackers MUST attack during those hours.
Then the next vulnerability cycle is always 24 hours after that. The third, 6 days after that.
So essentially you get to choose the first, second and third vulnerability windows to take down your citadel.
You are always in control, and always know when the vulnerability windows will be.
Sure.
No they dont. Vulnerability timers are set by the owner of the citadel. If your astrahus is invulnerable and you set the timer to 3PM on wednesday, and Its sunday and i want to attack now, i cant.
You mean, after theyve already attacked once, right?
So can the defenders rainbow their defense (defend 10 structures, defend all 10, thats a win).
The same applies to defenders. They can defend with no limits other than their own fatigue which can be managed through having friends and having a fun time defending, trying to catch them off guard and inflicting losses, etc etc.
So the only real card in the attackers hands is the fact that they can attack you.
No, the very fact that there are still so many highsec structures goes to show that there were a lot of people who didnt care about structures and couldnt defend them.
No, it was just another benefit of owning or having access to citadels.
You know, like the bonuses to refining, the ability to compress, etc etc etc.
That was always the point.
Regular npc refineries, refinery rate is 0.5x. Or whatever it is right now.
Raitaru, its 0.52x. Better rates.
Regular NPC stations, jump clones 24 hours penalty.
Astrahus with clone bay, no penalty. Better rates.
Youre confusing “Power” with “Cost”. Those two are completely different, especially if youre talking about defending your citadel.
Even if, say, the Standup Multirole Missile Launcher suddenly became 50 million isk more expensive because the blueprint was changed, but all the statlines were kept the same, then that isnt any change in the “Power”, the strength of the module. Only the cost has changed. The module is at the same strength, the same power as before.
If a citadel becomes 100 million isk more expensive to produce because of added materials to the BPC, that, again, has no determination on the power of the citadel. It doesnt make the citadel harder to defend. It doesnt decrease its DPS. Nothing with regards to the “Power” of the citadel has changed.
Cost has nothing to do with power.
This is so stupid.
When CCP nerfed mining in nullsec, when they reduced the ore anomaly quantities, did they buff rorqual mining? Did they increase the amount an excavator drone harvests?
Oh, thats right, It was a nerf.
You dont need to add something when you take away something else. Sometimes a nerf is just a nerf.
If losing your structure wasnt an incentive, what is?
Quick correction, i think you can build capitals in fortizars and keepstars as well. They limited it to medium sized citadels and above(if you consider the astra and raitaru as small).
But you can still make subcapitals and refine in any citadel, right? So theres, what, reaction and moon mining, 2 things you cant do, and everything else, you can, in every citadel? Research, invention, refining, compression, manufacturing?
Thats pretty much jack of all trades. If youre looking for something that can do EVERYTHING, then no. There arent even ships that can do everything, and asking for one is stupid.
Also, building supers dont count as were talking about hisec here.
You just said you wanted to potentially give them the same bonuses as raitarus or athanors.
Thats the point. They are bland because its the same empire building and maintaining them. There isnt some sort of special branch that has unlocked the secrets of refining and giving better rates at one part of the empire.
Have you ever played any MMORPG before? You do realize, that the NPC sellers are always the ones selling the most bland, basic items, right? Do you know of any NPC seller that sells the best, end-game gear that can otherwise only be obtained through random chance on raids?
I was talking about NPC stations. And yes, NPC stations were never designed to have bonuses.
So you want NPC stations to have random refining ranges, and you want citadels to have even higher, but random, refining ranges? So my local NPC station may only refine at 0.5, but the one a couple systems over does 0.52, and your raitaru does 0.56 but mine does 0.58 for no apparent reason other than random chance?
Correction, Wetu does not hold 5 anymore. They only hold 3, i believe. CCP nerfed it. I was using Rorquals when they did.
But your saying they can still use T2 mining drones is like a citadel that can still be used without a core. The whole point of mining drones is that you mine with them, and therefore performance matters, with each excavator being as good as a mining barge in terms of load, and T1/T2 mining drones being significantly less.
The same could be said of citadels. No core, less performance, but still, you can dock, etc. You can still use the citadel, just not to its full capacity. Increased capability AND increased risk at the same time, and the ability to choose whether you want that increased capability and risk or not. Sounds exactly the same as when you said it.
And, of course, unlike drones, which can be stolen, and were stolen many times, there is no risk for a quantum core to be stolen out of a citadel by a passerby.
They can if they want to. Nothing is stopping them.
There is nothing stopping someone from flying a Blinged Raven Navy issue.
You are allowed to fly whatever you want to. Place whatever structure you want to.
But EVE has never been a place where you are perfectly safe. Where you can do things in perfect safety, where there is no risk in putting down a structure, no consequence in flying a blingy ship.
That has never changed.
Again, facts are against your claim.
And Goonswarm are losing structures left and right in querious and delve. They follow the same rule as everyone else, and are subject to it as well.
You should only own a structure if you can defend it or dont care about losing it.
Thing is, if you go to a small, remote place in hisec, you probably wont be bothered.
But again, the facts are against you.
You can change the UI size, but sure. No one is saying that EVE is for everyone. No one is saying that everyone should and can enjoy EVE.
The problem here, is that there will always be someone with a bad experience and will quit eve because of what seemed like a slight to them.
Look at this guy. This was before the quantum core, before the abandoned structure phase. People ganged up on his structure and took it down. Wasnt even a lot of people, was only like 20 guys max. He had a terrible experience and blamed CCP.
Some people will play Call Of Duty multiplayer, get shot in the face every round, and ragequit. Some will play Starcraft 2, lose every match and ragequit. Not every video game is for everyone. And thats okay. Theres nothing wrong with that.
What is wrong, though, is taking your immediate experience and making generalizations based on your limited views. When youre in nullsec, all you see are citadels because there are almost no NPC structures. When youre in hisec, there are tons of stuff all around you, so you dont realize and recognize the number of citadels around you. And yet, the evidence, the facts, say that you are wrong.
Still waiting on evidence to support the whack claim that more “independent citadels” translates to “content” (however it’s defined). Because right now, that’s the premise that the whole argument is being based on and I’m not seeing any support for it, or even what it’s supposed to mean…
I’m not trying to learn that stuff yet, aside from absorbing information about them, watching goons get killed, and just getting a background of random knowledge. Stuff that might be useful later.
I’m more interested in how to kill one than actually flying one, but again, I haven’t and maybe it’s a blast for all I know. One of my favorite ships can do about 45 dps, has almost no tank, but can do over 19 au/s it’s fantastic fun, and I will be able to even faster soon. Large slow ships don’t really strike me as fun, I have some and tend to space out waiting for them to do stuff, like move. Put me in a Stiletto and I’m very very happy, they are fast, flexible, and great for being sneaky. I can go anywhere in them and with the exception of this one lady in Rancer, I haven’t met anyone who I can’t evade. I have lose s few by making mistakes, but I make less of them because of that and can sit next to a huge war and watch the server melt. So, with the Stiletto, and for me, the Svipul oh, and the Sabre, I love that thing too, only I tend to bubble myself at the exact wrong moment. So anyway I have plenty of stuff to work on just mastering those. I love while that can do more than one thing, the Gnosis is my favorite “large” ship because of that, and I haven’t even scratched the surface of what they can do. It’s not just the stuff in the skill queue, its knowing when to not blow bubbles at the baddies too. It’s gotten me killed twice, and got two of my friends killed with me the second time, though we were killed by a Sin, so it may not have mattered that I kept popping out bubbles.
And now I’m getting way off topic I guess.
I friggin love the bubble button though…
If people had cared about those stations at the time the forsaken fortress update hit, they would have fueled their station services after the update, even if they did not fuel it before, do you agree? I know I would have, if I were the owner of a structure.
I would think that nobody would willingly let their structure get into an abandoned state, as it would be better to either unanchor it or fuel it.
All those stations that did still hit the ‘abandoned’ state a week later were therefore owned by people who, at the time, didn’t care enough to fuel or unanchor those structures.
My conclusion is therefore that those owners weren’t active, or in other words, that they abandoned those structures.
That doesn’t require a source, it requires logical thinking.
Everything you do in eve carry’s a risk. The smaller your corp the greater the risk is when you are floating billions of ISK in space for everyone to see. If you take the time to really think about what you are doing and what the risks are, their are things (I’m not going to tell you) you can do too mitigate these risks.
