The goal was good, the idea is dumb as dirt. They could have added risk and reward by dropping contents or salvage on the structures/fit. As least then players would have some impact on risk and reward.
This is clumsy and unimaginative.
4 Likes
What exactly is their place? Driving down prices for industry players by flooding the market with excess production? Autopiloting expensive ships to Jita and feeding easy kills to gankers?
Supporting the game with their subscriptions. Providing a recruiting pool for corporations. Populating space so it doesnât feel desolate. Enjoying the game however the hell they want.
Industry is industry. Markets move on. If industrialists canât adapt, then they should do something else. When it comes to autopiloting, what do you care? I think youâre reaching for reasons; you havenât put up any good ones yet.
1 Like
Iâll grant this one: PvE players are an excellent cash cow for CCP to milk.
Providing a recruiting pool for corporations.
Except most of them suck at EVE and the only value they add to a corporation is via the corp tax. You donât want these players in your corp unless youâre running a âscamâ corp that exists purely to bait PvE players into joining and depositing the corp tax directly into your wallet.
Populating space so it doesnât feel desolate.
NPCs could do this just fine. Replace all of the PvE farmers with NPCs, keep their names and overview icons the same, and nobody would notice the change.
If industrialists canât adapt, then they should do something else.
Well yes, and this is the problem. Legitimate industry players are discouraged from participating in that part of the game because the horde of MINERALS I MINE MYSELF ARE FREE idiots flood the market with excess production and drive down prices. If PvE farmers all quit the happiest people in EVE would be the industry players exploiting the new market opportunities.
When it comes to autopiloting, what do you care?
Because itâs a fundamentally stupid thing to do. But I suppose thatâs the best contribution PvE players have to offer, being idiots and feeding free loot to gankers. Perhaps the gankers would be upset if CCP discouraged their easy prey from continuing to hand over those easy kills.
@CCP_Dopamine and @CCP in general:
I really, really wish you guys would finally learn. You have a community of people that would gladly give you ideas for how to implement meaningful changes to solve the issues that EvE has.
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Never balance by cost:
You should almost never balance by cost. That solves absolutely nothing for existing powerhouses, and hurts newer players that will continue the game when the older players burn out. And also make us old players burn out faster, as weâre getting freakinâ bored â you guys just donât listen to us when we bring up things that would change for the better! The closest change has been Triglavian invasions, but that just seems like a 5th house with static space, at this point. Really hoped for dynamic faction space⌠sigh.
The problem with structures was not the cost. I believe the costs were already in a good place â not too cheap to be pissed out a window, but not so expensive to prevent players from getting one.
The reason balance by cost will not be effective is that older entities have already set up ISK printers. These will not fail to print ISK, and as the inflation of ISK increases due to yet another dumb âbalance by costâ change, their ISK printers will keep up because inflation will go to the items they produce as well. -
Other options:
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Balance by number/corp.
Balance them by Corp/Alliance. But that would be sub-optimal â it would still allow for ISK printers to have alt head-farms as holding entities. This wouldnât really solve anything, so it is a bad idea (or just needs more refinement to address ISK printers). -
Get ISK printers out.
Another likely bad idea for industrialists, but certainly SHOULD be done for head-farms.
There needs to be ISK generation in large quantities to churn out the ships and modules in the volumes that we consume them, without making inflation skyrocket. The limiting factor to ISK printers used to be accounts, but then you guys seriously screwed up by introducing skill injectors, and really went all-in on the screw-up when you then started handing out SP & injectors like candy, that werenât even generated by players (you broke that promise real fast. Trust<<nul).
Head-farmers can be created with minimal investment, and do not (directly) generate income for CCP. Granted, they probably do through PLEX purchases to buy the injectors, but in the end, its a bad long-term solution. Eventually the return on injecting is poor, and once you reach critical mass, a player doesnât even need to pay for their main toons either. It also allows for more people to create head-farms faster, which in turn also stop paying for the game. Eventually someone will write up an article on some popular website which will give a step by step on how to pay once for the game and never again, and that will effectively neuter CCPs income and youâll fold, along with this awesome game. Guess the (idiotic, short sighted) investors will be really happy for a year or two before it dies, though. -
Balance by number/space.
CCP could balance the proliferation of structures in space by implementing⌠drum roll⌠limits of the space. Just throwing out overly simplistic numbers here: 1 Keepstar within 10LY (makes Titans not instant since they jump 5LY). 4 Forts in same range, and say, 10 Astrahaus. Fortizars would then be actual forts, holding the dreads and other caps at the choke points, Keepstars would be the seat of power for the area, and able to house the heavy hitters. Astras would be like the outposts. Not sure how to deal with industrial structures, but they should be balanced similarly.
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8 Likes
I canât seem to set my home station anymore as my default. Does this have something to do with this patch? I canât find any information on it, but the structure is online, just doesnât have a core because it was already active and fueled.
when have youâŚor anybody else mined minerals?
1 Like
Everything = time and time is never free.
Then explain all this free time I have now Im not playing EvE
2 Likes
hmm, last i checked i never paid for timeâŚ
and its a human concept anyway, how does one pay for a concept?
@CCP_Dopamine and @CCP in general:
Reposting this as a thread, as it likely is buried in the actual feedback thread.
I really, really wish you guys would finally learn. You have a community of people that would gladly give you ideas for how to implement meaningful changes to solve the issues that EvE has.
-
Never balance by cost:
You should almost never balance by cost. That solves absolutely nothing for existing powerhouses, and hurts newer players that will continue the game when the older players burn out. And also make us old players burn out faster, as weâre getting freakinâ bored â you guys just donât listen to us when we bring up things that would change for the better! The closest change has been Triglavian invasions, but that just seems like a 5th house with static space, at this point. Really hoped for dynamic faction space⌠sigh.
The problem with structures was not the cost. I believe the costs were already in a good place â not too cheap to be pissed out a window, but not so expensive to prevent players from getting one.
The reason balance by cost will not be effective is that older entities have already set up ISK printers. These will not fail to print ISK, and as the inflation of ISK increases due to yet another dumb âbalance by costâ change, their ISK printers will keep up because inflation will go to the items they produce as well. -
Other options :
-
Balance by number/corp.
Balance them by Corp/Alliance. But that would be sub-optimal â it would still allow for ISK printers to have alt head-farms as holding entities. This wouldnât really solve anything, so it is a bad idea (or just needs more refinement to address ISK printers). -
Get ISK printers out .
Another likely bad idea for industrialists, but certainly SHOULD be done for head-farms.
There needs to be ISK generation in large quantities to churn out the ships and modules in the volumes that we consume them, without making inflation skyrocket. The limiting factor to ISK printers used to be accounts, but then you guys seriously screwed up by introducing skill injectors, and really went all-in on the screw-up when you then started handing out SP & injectors like candy, that werenât even generated by players (you broke that promise real fast. Trust<<nul).
Head-farmers can be created with minimal investment, and do not (directly) generate income for CCP. Granted, they probably do through PLEX purchases to buy the injectors, but in the end, its a bad long-term solution. Eventually the return on injecting is poor, and once you reach critical mass, a player doesnât even need to pay for their main toons either. It also allows for more people to create head-farms faster, which in turn also stop paying for the game. Eventually someone will write up an article on some popular website which will give a step by step on how to pay once for the game and never again, and that will effectively neuter CCPs income and youâll fold, along with this awesome game. Guess the (idiotic, short sighted) investors will be really happy for a year or two before it dies, though. -
Balance by number/space.
CCP could balance the proliferation of structures in space by implementing⌠drum roll ⌠limits of the space. Just throwing out overly simplistic numbers here: 1 Keepstar within 10LY (makes Titans not instant since they jump 5LY). 4 Forts in same range, and say, 10 Astrahaus. Fortizars would then be actual forts, holding the dreads and other caps at the choke points, Keepstars would be the seat of power for the area, and able to house the heavy hitters. Astras would be like the outposts. Not sure how to deal with industrial structures, but they should be balanced similarly.
-
Balance by number/corp.
1 Like
I completely disagree with your assertion that you shouldnât balance through cost. Of course, people can make enough money to remove the sting of many losses and to make cheaper ships/fits straight up disposable, but that doesnât change the fact module/ship costs plays an important role in most peopleâs fitting decisions most of the time. I mean, just because I can afford it, doesnât mean I want throw my money away.
Also, I think you misunderstand the economics of âpowerhousesâ. They may generate plenty of revenue, but they also have some pretty big expenses (i.e. fuel, SRP. bills, stimuluses, handouts), and the costs of developing regions for use can add up real quick. Yeah, they might not bat an eye at losing a single Astrahus and itâs core, but they certainly arenât so rich that donât care about entire regions getting glassed. And quantum cores are only going to make stuff like that hurt even more.
Look at it this way. The U.S. pulls in 3 trillion dollars per year in tax revenue. From my perspective, itâs not only many times more money than my entire family will ever earn over the course of our lives, itâs more money than I could even hope to spend. From my perspective, it might as well be an infinite amount of money. But from the perspective of the US government, with all of itâs expenses (and waste, fraud, and abuse), itâs not nearly enough. In fact, the last time we had a balanced budget was about 20 years ago.
So yeah, powerhouses may have larger budgets, but they still have budgets, and they still have to factor costs into decisions.
The cost in this case isnât for balance.
Itâs a deposit. The point is to deter time wasters from putting up structures they have no intention of defending.
And to provide an incentive to attack structures.
1 Like
If thatâs the incentive or the goal then I can hand down now tell you it has failed in High sec.
I run a 500+ High sec corp and even with those numbers which is in the top 10 corporations in EVE⌠we cant defend structures.
People want to mission in 3-4 bil rattlesnakes and golems.
People do incursions in 6-7 bil Vindicators
People Mine in 1-1.5 Bil Orcas
What people donât want in high sec is to be forced into a conflict that they donât have time for and donât want. A lot of my guys in the corp are Ex-Big Alliance vets that have come back to the game for a more social and fun aspect because RL jobs and Kids means they cant be PVPing at a high level anymore. They canât make the 3 am CTAâs so have opted for a more chilled out High sec life where they can teach new bros about the game and help them enjoy the game as a mentor.
So if I have 500 people and cant defend a structure in high sec and I have one of the top 10 biggest corporations who are they targeting?
CCP and most people in Low Sec, Null and also Wardecers need to understand that people in high sec donât want conflict. If we do then we will scan down a WH and jump into it, Yeet fleet to Null or Jump into Low sec for some small gang fight.
The only thing that Cores do is push high sec people to NPC stations. I know my guys have pulled down every structure we have and are now in NPC stations.
7 Likes
Why would you want a structure, anyway?
6 posts merged.
If there is 500 of you, and you canât even form a fleet to defend structures, then not only do you not deserve structures, but you sound like a complete waste of time and effort.
Yeah i thought as much.
They can do all of that without owning a structure.
No you need to understand that you are playing a pvp sandbox. Conflict is not optional. It is in fact the whole point of eve.
Perhaps you would prefer eve echoes.
So the change is doing itâs job!
Time waster corp doesnât get structures. 
1 Like
Things that help Miners and logistics
- Ore Compression
Things that help manufacturing
- Ore Reprocessing
- Having to not pay the NPC tax when manufacturing
2 Likes
So, greed.
1 Like
Use someone elses.
Use someone elses.
Use someone elses.
1 Like