Re-Open The New Eden Gate

EVE Technology and Research Center Player Features & Ideas
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@DeMichael_Crimson you and I have been in sync up until now… what happened, brother? What happened? :joy:

PLAYERS interacting with Jove, especially in relation to accessing their space, would also break lore beyond repair. (Extra emphasis on the word “players”. )This is evident per the novel Empyrean Age (one of the best damn books I’ve ever read). There is a reason why CCP introduced Drifters/Trigs as a precursor race that survived the cataclysm to interact with instead of using Jove, and why Jove interaction is restricted to SoCT ships. There is also a reason why CCP emphasizes the other precursor races (see skillbooks), and is more likely to make exising and new precursor races more relevant in the future than Jove themselves in terms of player interaction.

Part of the problem (not even the biggest one) with opening the EVE Gate is that this is something that cannot be sanely undone lorewise, and should the decision to reclose it happen, that would devastate the lore yet again and pose numerous inconsistencies beyond having opened it (why was there a cataclysm the first time and not the second?) and have just as negative of a reaction for a large portion of the player base as opening it up to begin with.

So many things would break not just in lore, but also in mandatory game mechanics changes.

  • SOE religion would need to change: missions, epic arc needs to be changed now. EVE politics, culture needs to be changed as well.
  • Further explanation for the EVE Gate must be provided, and this takes away from the mystery and intrigue - the lore should be ongoing but never finished
  • If a cataclysm occurs, that literally wipes out all of New Eden and there is no longer a game to play (we’d be back to the Stone Age), and if there isn’t one, then there better be a damn good explanation for why there isn’t, and that isn’t attractive for lore
  • If the gate opens and there is no cataclysm, note that the technology on the other side is orders of magnitude more advanced since they did not suffer the cataclysm and did not have to “start over” like New Eden did, so now you have ships whose technology makes Avatars look like peashooters by comparison, and that doesn’t bode well for balancing. And the only thing worse than gorss imbalancing is “oh hey guys we missed you let’s be friends again”
  • If new systems were to become accessible… existing systems are already sparse as they are, this makes a bad situation even worse. CCP is trying to address this with resource distribution and eco updates to ween players off NPC stations onto POSes in non-hub/non-HS systems, but still that will take some time for the shift to happen.
  • If new systems don’t appear, you’re still likely to have yet a new line of NPCs and/or ships, and frankly we don’t need that. A not-insignificant player base is already unhappy that trigs were introduced as NPCs and/or as a line of player ships, and the only thing worse (from their POV) than Trigs is encountering yet a new race (Terran or otherwise) that is orders of magnitude more vicious than all of New Eden combined and even moreso unnecessary (the unnecessity being worse than the visciousness).
  • One appeal of EVE to many players is that it -ISN’T- tied to real life in any tangible fashion… in other words, tying in “Earth” to the game in the present makes the game less attractive. Personally, it would be really hard for me to take the game seriously if I were encountering or facing off against “Future Earth”. I don’t mind Earth being part of past lore (I actually find that part fascinating), but to tie it into the present would be completely and totally cheesy, and I can assure you I am not in the minority in that regard.
  • This falls into the category of ideas that are interesting/fascinating/deserving of exploration and fanciful hypotheticals but never any worthwhile consideration of implementation. The lore does not need to radically change to become basically Not-EVE just because the idea is neat. I confess the idea is neat, but that doesn’t mean it’s worth implementing. EVE would not be EVE if you open the EVE gate. Changes to the game, including lore, should happen on the basis of merit and maintaining the spirit and integrity and cohesion of EVE. Opening the EVE Gate would be like removing global PVP; EVE would not be EVE if you make such a change.

There are many, many, many, many, many more points I could enumerate, but it’s 5:30am local time and I’m tired. Honestly the only reason I’m replying to this thread anymore is because I was thrown off by @DeMichael_Crimson disagreeing with me since we usually agree on everything else :broken_heart:.

I 100% fully support and encourage you to explore the fiction-of-the-reality-of-EVE by opening the EVE gate, but I will oppose you with the wrath of ten thousand Avatars when it comes to making it canon.

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Whoa take it easy brother, everything you just said is what CCP has done with the Triglavians. From what I remember, there was nothing about Trig space, Trig ships or mutated modules in the actual Lore to begin with yet CCP decided to add that stuff to the Lore.

As for my ‘Twist’ on the OP’s idea, it could be a way to get back into the Lore that CCP had started working on years before they dumped everything for all this damn Triglavian crap. I’m talking about Carolina’s Star, Jove Observatory’s, Jovian Jump Gate System, Rogue Drones, Sansha Wormholes, Drifter’s / Sleepers, etc.

As for explaining the Eve Gate itself re-opening, it could be written off as a partial opening caused by effects from Carolina’s Star. The entrance could be small and sporadic, opening and closing for a limited time and only allowing SoE exploration ships to pass through.

Having those ships exit into a system deep in Jove space could be explained as some sort of ricochet effect. And since the Jovian Jump Gate system isn’t working, players aren’t going to get very far into Jove space. Over time, like maybe a year or so, players collect various bits and pieces from exploration Hacking sites which is then used to re-activate one of the Jump Gates, thus opening another system.

Basically that would restart the whole process again, taking another year or so collecting more bits and pieces to re-activate another Jump Gate. So on and so forth. Hell, every once in a while could have Sansha open a W-Hole and steal some of the materials players have collected, thus making that goal take even longer to accomplish.

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:joy: Don’t worry, that response wasn’t directed at you, just at continuing the discussion in general

They were able to do this because it did not alter invariants (such as EVE Gate being closed) or impose retcons or introduce inconsistencies. Actually, it was fully compatible with the pre-existence of precursor races (at least one known for each of the five major races in existence, Drifters in fact being a precursor race) and the evolution of technology in general, as well as the rediscovery of ancient technology which is far more advanced to the current technology for reasons clearly established in lore.

Your specific line of thinking has some merit that I am amenable to.

In my most humblest of opinions *brushes shoulders off*, this would be acceptable only if a novel was written in which it was briefly opened and closed and the novel discussed circumstances around that (esp. empire politics in which they all rush toward it and basically battle over it politically and/or militarily similar to how Empyrean Age spanned for four empires, CONCORD, SOE, and Jove), and that no meaningful data emerges from the gate because access is one way only (not even telemetry or communications comes out) AND/OR whatever comes back is ambiguous, corrupted, mentally deranged, incoherent, etc. Also, the novel should neither confirm nor deny the state or even existence of Earth and the universe on the other side if anything or anyone comes back out of the EVE Gate. The one-way travel and lack of telemetry/communications would make sense given that no cataclysm is taking place (a second time), but intrigue and mystery could be further added to the EVE Gate if, for example, an artifact (and maybe some incoherent logs) were to emerge from the gate upon closing as the sole exception to the one-way-travel experience since we we won’t know what the artifact is is or how to interpret it (or the incoherent logs).

In other words, this novel would open-and-close this lore ‘violation’ for a brief instance and then things would return to the status quo. This I would actually be okay with and would probably enjoy reading the novel, though I could just as easily live without this invariant ever changing. As a matter of principle I’d rather not alter this core invariant, but were it to be altered, I think this specific approach would be sensible.

With Jove we have the exact same problem as the EVE Gate, except possibly to a greater extent. The only thing more mysterious and intriguing than a complete absence of information is tantalizing tidbits of information knowing that you will never get more than the paltry sum you already have. PLAYERS getting more exposure to Jove via access to their space (whether it’s incremental, via temporary event, or even in isolated instances like abyssal space) severely erodes the mystery and intrigue… Interacting with Jove should not become a normalized aspect of EVE as you could hop into any other wormhole or join an Incursion fleet or enter Abyssal or hit up mission agents.

I want to emphasis the keyword “players” a second time because this would not be a problem if Jove were to continue to be expanded upon directly via canon lore such as novels. There is a huge difference between expanding Jove lore via stuff like novels and via direct player interaction exposure. Expanding the lore makes the steak that much juicier but continues to keep it out of our reach, so we keep on salivating - which is a good thing… but once we get our steak and consume it and there’s nothing left, then it becomes “meh”, been there done that, Jove isn’t fascinating anymore.

Basically, I think it’s fine if Jove is expanded via lore but not player interaction (save for SoCT ships). As for the EVE gate… I think you’ve identified a narrow exception for which maybe a novel could briefly open and close the gate. I just don’t want there to be a permanent situation like when they killed Empress Sarum via live event… that pissed me offfffffff.

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I think this a great idea, Make it So!

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I heard about that. It sounded amazing. lol

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If you read my original post, there was a large amount of story to be had.

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So… we’re going to further break the already badly broken player density/activity distribution, which CCP is trying to correct with POS migration incentives and resource redistribution (won’t be enough), just to expand lore?

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Again, my original suggestion, was merely to bring Earth into the fold VIA the gate as a completely ruined solar system, with the objective to find what happened.

Everyone seems to have taken what I said out of context from the original post because I said “If I had it my way, I would do this”

That statement is completely irrelevant, my original suggestion was one system with Earth in it, essentially similar to a ‘shattered’ wormhole system for the purpose of some lore expansion and new content.

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If CCP had any interest in lore, they have SO many options for adding it to the game. There is no need to add crazy programming or make any modifications to the game.

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@Michael_Karn nothing was taken out of context. Your statements are too open ended and ambiguous, and it is our obligation to explore the possible meaning and their implications in the absence of specificity. Even in my commentary I essentially provided decision trees of outcomes of possible implementations and the numerous negative consequences associated with each. You still have not addressed the numerous counterpoints raised by myself and some of the counterpoints raised by others. You haven’t even acknowledged @DeMichael_Crimson’s idea of how the EVE gate could sensibly be opened, which I personally find has merit.

In your last two posts you have been defending yourself but have not taken control of this thread which you started, so it is no longer clear if you are still advocating this, or if you’ve basically redacted your proposal to make this canon and are just defending previous;y made but since-redacted statements. So I explicitly ask you: are you still asserting that this should be canon, or have you redacted your proposal, (perhaps sticking to the official fanfiction forum category I pointed out earlier)? If you continue to assert it should be canon, could you please clarify what specific implementation you now have in mind after factoring in our constructive criticism and @DeMichael_Crimson’s possible implementation? I assume what you have in mind has since evolved if you haven’t redacted your proposal entirely.

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Ahh, yeah, like what they did with all this Trig crap… :expressionless:

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“There are so many unanswered questions in the Eve lore already…”
“That’s too confusing. Let’s start fresh with a new race. We’ll patch together some backstory about Jovians.”

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