What did you replace them with in that 19 hours?
Did you enjoy a performance boost in other areas? Did you get podded and avoid having to replace them?
Was it worth it?
This is part of what makes the game interesting.
Yes, but you suggest something based on your desire to have all the benefits and none of the drawbacks. Others in the topic showed you how you can manage the benefits and drawbacks, and I have given you a clear path to a more enjoyable gameplay without implants, while still keeping them for those who want them. The point of a discussion forum is not to sheepishly agree with a suggestion, but to take it apart, analyze it and come up with things that make the suggestion unnecessary or why it is not a good thing.
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There are benefits and liabilities in all areas of EVE game play. One of the benefits of highsec game play is plugging +5s and not worrying a whole lot about losing them. On the otherhand making decent ISK/HR compared to say nullsec or wormholes is not even competitive, especially nullsec where as one person put it ISK is made [flows] like water.
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I lived in nullsed for 8 months and had +5 learning implants plugged >99% of the time, only rarely did i swap them out and that was when i was told death was a given for a certain roam or operation. In fact, i made approximately 500-700 billion ISK in 8 months in nullsec and lost only about 1 billion total the entire time.
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Your argument is outdated as well, i used my hundreds of billions of ISK i made in nullsec to move my main from 30mil SP to 130mil sp in about 4 months (even with +5 plugged and a constant booster going youâll never reach this level of skill gain without a lot of ISK spending, which is very possible in âriskyâ space).
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I have since left nullsec: i spent most of my ISK except for about 280 billion and I have about another 100 billion in various assets. I have my main at 140 million SP and 3 alts at 40mil SP (approximately) and 16 more accounts ranging from about 2 mil SP to 10 mil sp each. In short, your premise that being in risky space leads to a decline in gain of SP is not only wrong but exactly BACKWARDS, most highsec players will never even get vaguely close to the speed you can gain SP in risky space since you can now buy SP by the boat load with the boat loads of ISK you should be making in risky space.
If youâre not making boat loads of ISK in risky space you either will be making it in the near future and can then easily make up any lost time by monster stomping SP onto yourself with all the ISK you make (via injectors) or you will never get good at risky space game play and you should go back to highsec and plug +5s and be content with how pitifully slow your SP gain will be over time.
So your solution to the problem is: âJust get rich af!â Yeah thatâs going to work for everyone⌠Guess what will happen if everyone gets 500b tomorrow? Everyone will be poor.
I am a game designer, that is where the suggestion comes from. I personally do not care about money in games, if I wanted to, I could just buy a few billion ISK, but I wonât because I want to enjoy the game as it is.
That said: many games over the last years have gotten rid of unnecessary stats, like hit rating in WoW i.E. As someone already said above: technically stats in Eve are leftovers from the old ages of RPGs, they serve no purpose other than to determine learning speed in a way beginning players cannot foresee when they choose them, which makes them a badly designed game element.
To determine if a game element is good or bad simply imagine what would happen if you remove it.
With skill points removed everyone would learn at the same rate, and the âmeaningful choicesâ are what you choose to learn. No one would miss the old system other than for roleplay reasons.
Same goes for the learning implants: what if they would all be removed tomorrow? Aside from some people complaining that they lost ISK from selling them (who can be compensated by just having NPCs buy them), no one would miss them. No one would ask to lower the stats then have ppl pay lots of ISK to raise them again, in the same way that no one asks for NPC docking fees or a monthly tax issued by Concord to cover your living cost. No gameplay element would be gone, as people still would plug in implants if they feel like it, everyone would still have implant clones and empty ones. The only difference would be that more people would fly into dangerous space with cheap ships that wonât make a dent on their wallet, because now they risk only the ship they bring.
So, from a simple game-design perspective, learning implants currently only have a negative impact on the experience of players. Effectively without learning implants everyone would have more fun. Therefore the logical conclusion is to remove them.
Thatâs not a meaningful choice because you do not have a choice. you have to train skills to access ships and modules. A meaningful choice is how quickly you want to be able to use those things and how you want to achieve that speed.
They only have a negative impact on people who cannot manage themselves. I have no negative impact on my gameplay because of them. On my training chars they help me progress faster. On my PVP chars they donât bother me because I do not use them.
Games, good games anyway, are about trade-off and compromises. A game that has a single solution isnât a very good game at all. Itâs clear this is the spirit of how implants in general were implemented and I donât think it would be more fun if there was a âbestâ set of implants for everything that couldnât be lost. Players should be forced to make interesting and meaningful choices and definitely risk-averse carebears should not be indulged by giving them everything with no risk of loss. That is at odds with developing a competitive game like Eve Online that features a player-driven economy.
That said, I agree in general that trading off character progression for combat capability or less risk isnât probably the most interesting choice to force players to make. Even CCP has agreed theyâd like to remove learning implants, and have stated the major impediment is dealing with effect this would have on the in-game economy as learning implants are a major market. Personally, I think that is a bit of a cop out and they should just delete attributes and learning implants completely and let the market adjust, or do that and add some new implant or booster that the LP can be used to buy.
So yes, remove learning implants and remove attributes. They cause more problems than the interesting gameplay that they add. The tradeoff they force on players has already been partially short-circuited with skill extractors and Upwell clone bays so letâs put this to bed and work on developing interesting gameplay.
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No, you donât. You just gain it more slowly.
The OP wants to remove a choice from the game because he doesnât like making it, which is not a good reason and neither is âbut I wouldâve had more SP!â. Youâll have to do better than that.
Regardless, training SP isnât the goal of this game. The idea is to make choices which have consequences. This is one of them. The question is whether this choice is meaningful.
Currently you decide what skill to train based on:
(1) bonuses/abilities conferred
(2) ships you want to fly
(3) time it takes to train
I consider all 3 of these to be meaningful choices. Attribute implants influence (3).
If the 19hrs gap is the problem then, as a suggestion, there is already an Advanced Infomorph Psychology skill which allows you install more than 5 jump clones so they could add an Advanced Infomorph Synchronizing skill to further reduce the time between clone jumps.
Itâs also worth remembering that this is the only MMORPG I know of where you gain SP (equivalent of XP) while offline.
What I do is, when I am moving in null, I switch to a naked clone, I pause my training queue and I start it on another alt. Which has learning implants. This way I donât even care to remain in null for days. Then I come back to HS and slip into my training clone, pause my alt and start this toon. Right now I am training rigging on my alts ^^, they all have adv lab operations III. Later I will train cynosural . Then cloaking.
Otherwise I can also have 2 +3 implants (for what ? 16M ?) if I want to train that one character.
The only issue I have, is with the accelerators, because they are not move to another character when the skill queue is moved. So when accelerators are up, I just let my alts train - or I sell my accelerators.
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Learning skills were a âone-offâ permanent choice which did limit their meaningfulness yet some players still chose to forego or delay training them. In contrast, implants are destroyed with your pod which makes it a meaningful choice everytime you choose to undock with them fitted.
Mandatory for what? They enable you to train faster. Thatâs all.
Theyâre a cheaper, more specialised, longer lasting type of Cerebral Accelerator.
Most âPvPâ implants are hardwirings which donât affect attributes. Those that do offer a combination of attribute bonuses as well as PvP bonuses to make them more desirable and consequently more expensive hence rarer, to avoid them becoming too common.
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Implying that people who refuse to leave nullsec do so by virtue of having a billion isk worth of learning implants plugged into their spodbrain.
Your âcomplaintâ is a literal non-issue. If youâre that afraid of missing out on SP because youâre training slower, and are âlosing iskâ then stop being an abject failure example and stop doing it wrong then. If youâre training purely to feed extractors, then do it on a character that has no intentions of undocking most of the time.
Poor.
So my way of playing the game by wanting to be able to fly all ships is wrong then? Could you please link me the guide that describes what types of fun I am allowed to experience in Eve? Maybe I am playing the wrong game altogether.
Nope, I want to remove it because it is no choice. Whenever you can you should use learning implants, only when the pod is at risk you use no learning implants. This is how 99.9% of all active players play the game. And if such an overwhelming amount of players do the exact same thing, it is not a choice, it is mandatory with the option of being stupid.
I need you to provide your sources on the numbers here.
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Iâll also point out that eventually there will be a fair population of folks that donât use learning implants because they canât train anymore.
Maxxed out Alpha clones have no need of them. I mentioned I have a head full of learning implants⌠but I donât actually need them. They are just still there from back when Alpha accounts didnât exist. Iâve got almost 90 million skillpoints, I canât train anymore. /shrug.
Honestly, whatâs wrong with jumping out of your training implants and into a combat clone? I do it every time I undock.
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This isnt true, as i mentioned in my post living in every area of EVE has both upsides and downsides, one of the upsides of highsec is plugging +5s and having little to worry about.
The oh so popular âi know why other people are making certain decisions proofâ, [not sure what this fallacy is called but iâll call it the mind-reading fallacy, since such a statement requires you to read other peopleâs minds so that you can justifiable state you know why they make decisions].
IF AND ONLY IF, you supply exhaustive, independently verifiable proof that your statement is true and âall the other people not leaving high-sec because of their valuable learning implants?â, is a statement you can provide proof for, then this statement is nothing more than facts pulled from your behind.
[ Please dont follow up with the equally classic, âmy friends and I believe proofâ, because even if all your friends do agree with you, they dont represent enough of EVEs playerbase to matter ].
You are comparing apples to oranges and coming to an unsupportable conclusion:
Learning skills was a one and done deal, you learned them and they became a non-issue after that, no chance of losing those trained skill points when you died, no need to replace them and hence no fear of ISK loss going to âriskyâ places.
Implants are a choice with consequences, the very ones you are complaining about. If you choose expensive implants no matter the type, you have set up your risk vs reward scheme and whatever happens after that was a consequence based on your choices.
Highsec is actually disadvantaged in SP gain compared to other areas of nullsec, lowsec and wormholes because it can be harder to both pay for your monthly 500 Plex for your queue and also payout 750mil / injector to beat the SP ceiling. So there really isnt a problem for âriskyâ areas of game play, there is in fact a problem for highsec where incomes tend to be lower. This SP deprivation in âriskyâ areas is borderline mythical since i had +5s implanted in my main about 99.9% of the time and 100% of the time in my three alt accounts, while living and dying in nullsec.
I lost lets say about 100,000 SP during times i had no implants (serious exaggeration it was no where near this, much). During my 8 months in nulllsec i was +5 plugged almost non-stop, i pumped injectors to push my main from 30mil SP to 130mil SP (I also pumped about another 120mil SP spread between my 3 alts), im not feeling the pity-party for âriskyâ game play and its issues trying to gain skill points because it is deprived of +5 plugging.
I realize i am but a single person but i have to say that this claim of skill point deprivation in âriskyâ gaming zones is just plain good old fashion BS being hocked by players that want gain without risk.
Plug them or dont, either way you are making an informed decision to prioritize either training, safety or gaining something else like improved shield strength, whichever you chose, you set the table for whatever consequences come next.