I really don’t get suspect flags in local. We went through the whole blackout thing which whether you agreed with it or not was designed to remove local as an intel tool.
So why then in other areas of the map do you have a suspect flag that alerts everybody in the system that you’re up to something?
It’s giving more information than null local ever did - notice of your presence in system, that you’re active and up to something likely nefarious.
It’s anti small groups because it permits larger groups that can project force to be lazy with their scouting. Local does most of the work for them, flashing as soon as anybody becomes active. It’s hard enough being the little guy in New Eden without the client doing most of the work for your enemies.
Not really. If you don’t want to be ganked, don’t commit crimes. Or if you want to commit crimes but not be ganked, garner strength in numbers to counter-gank.
It’s not about making it safe, it’s about not allowing local to be used as an intel tool. Any of the arguments made against blackout just don’t apply to suspect flagging in local in low-sec
If somebody d-scans or probes you down fine, good, they’ve actually had to collect the intel themselves by scanning. But having it flash in local alerts the whole system, anybody docked, passers by, idle boxed scouts that something is going on. They’ve not had to do anything to earn that intel and none of the arguments made about blackout apply to why it should be freely available.
Local is the one match making tool in lowsec PvP. It’s to find targets, not to have people hide from PvP. If you did something “bad” why shouldn’t this be broadcasted as “I’m seeking PvP come to me”? Also, you still have to find the suspect with the usual means. But if no one flashes this often means no activity and you can move on as a scout after a quick check not wasting time for your fleet.
From a hunting point of view it’s just promoting inactivity, you don’t have to actively participate in scouting which to me is wrong. It’s easier to find targets in low-sec than null because players can’t rely on local being entirely friendly and therefore less likely to be concerned about scouts/small increase in local population. There’s also generally fewer locations a target is likely to be.
I don’t see why players in low-sec should be more entitled to better intel from a hunting perspective either. Let’s be honest, locating somebody once you know they’re active is the easy bit.
Categorical removal of local makes no sense in MMOs since socialization and community are essential and visibility is needed for that to happen (otherwise you feel isolated and, since you don’t see other players much, you think “no one plays this game”). I am vehemently pro-blackout, but only (in some form) in nullsec where risk should be higher and where it makes sense lorewise due to CONCORD/Empires not extending comm infrastructure control there.
You know, like a car alarm or house/business alarm. Those things are also hated by criminal types and argue they should be gone to make life easier for their activities…
Sorry, you don’t get to operate in a vacuum. Concord is always watching…in HS/LS at least…
Real world examples are always kind of pointless to try to apply to a game. I could just as easily say it’s like, the police knowing a crime is currently going on in a neighbourhood with zero assets on site. Then somehow managing to let every person in the entire neighbourhood know if they’re in any way conscious, who it is that’s doing it and that it’s still been going on as recently as the last 15 mins. However, those same police would then happily let the suspect on their way if they had the chance to intercept. Pretty ridiculous right? I could continue poking easy holes in your analogy but like I said, it’s kind of pointless.
This doesn’t conflict with anything that I’ve said.
I’m pro blackout too but this isn’t about blackout. The only relevance to this topic is that the argument made against blackout, which you’ve pointed out, isn’t valid in this case because you can still be sociable in local without knowing a player is Suspect
That’s fine, valid opinion, not one I share but valid feedback nonetheless welcome
In response to it encouraging PVP I would say sometimes it will, sometimes it won’t.
Reasons against
Players will jump into the system and become additionally cautious if they’re unwilling to either engage at all, or engage superior numbers.
Small groups just won’t remain in the area. I’m an experienced small gang pvper but it would be mental to try and occupy a system where people idle alts that can project significant force every time you try and do anything. It’s not even difficult, there’s groups out there that cover every decent system over region wide areas with alts. Thanks to the suspect flag they get alerted every time they should pay attention to their alt. Call me crazy but I think they should at a minimum should have to hit scan once in a while to see if there’s anything to gank.
The point about garnering strength in numbers highlights the issue for me. Some of us aren’t interested in a never ending game of escalations. I don’t want to have to be part of a large entity, in fact the day I have to will be the day I stop playing. I recognise a lot of people do enjoy the social side and like large fleets and sov and team oriented game play, but smaller groups should have some consideration in game design too so it appeals to everybody. Suspect in local just removes any ability to be subtle, which is a key tactic for smaller groups. A tactic that is easily countered by being active and paying attention which I don’t think is a big expectation.
If you’re not willing to be engaged by other players, then don’t commit crime. Don’t bash MTUs, don’t steal from wrecks or cans, etc. I don’t know what’s so hard about not committing crimes. “I want to commit crime without consequences from police or vigilantes” - not going to happen.
Small groups are going to leave an area because they can’t commit crimes without facing consequences? Really???
EVE is an MMO. If you don’t like garnering and/or facing large numbers, then you have a problem. I’m not going to say “this game is not for you”, but I am going to say you’re going to have to deal with the fact that players are going to impose themselves onto you whether you want them to or not, and when you commit crimes, you consent to the additional liabilities that come with the expanded player interaction suspect status enables.
I don’t why I keep getting misinterpreted. I don’t think the point I’m trying to make is difficult to understand.
I’ve already said I am happy to be engaged by other players. But I don’t think they should be alerted to my activity in local, they should have to be active and alert. I mean if we’re trying to apply logic to the game mechanic, why would anybody know a crime has even been committed if there’s no police or vigilantes on grid anyway? Abolish the suspect flag altogether if it occurs away from gate guns if you prefer.
As I explained, it’s nothing to do with being unable to commit crimes. It’s about how easily people become aware of your activity for no logical reason. Large groups then make it next to impossible to do anything.
I mean you and your friend imply no criminal has ever got away with committing any crime and the authorities not knowing.
I’ve been playing Eve since 2005. I don’t need a lesson in what you think the game is. We got on just fine before suspect in local was ever a thing and we’ll do just fine if it’s removed. It’s an illogical feature, that adds little to the game but encouraging inactivity.
Not logical? It is perfectly logical. CONCORD is sounding the alarm that 1. a crime has been committed and 2. the general public is legally permitted to engage the criminals. Perhaps you’ve overlooked:
and yet again I state
and
and
When you see blinky suspect is says oooooooooooh opportunity for PVP - keep an eye out!
So sure, fine, your argument is that you’re okay with the PVP aspect itself - I acknowledge that you acknowledge this. But the actual system-wide notification itself further encourages PVP in addition to the crimewatch mechanic. You are making a good thing even better by flagging someone in local, and doing so on realistic grounds with real-world analogues and a sensible in-game implementations.
We’re going to have to agree to disagree because we’re going around in circles.
I’ve already posted two points why I don’t agree it encourages PVP.
Concord in a low security system, with resources only on gates and stations knows of every misdemeanor in the whole system and makes everybody not AFK in the system aware it’s being committed in real time and who the perpetrators are. That’s not logical in the slightest. Nor is the fact they’re broadcasting this when your only suspect and not criminal, and therefore not interested in intercepting you themselves, even if you go into high sec.
Some may, some will dock/leave system until they leave. Others will look at their 5th alt that they haven’t paid attention to since DT and go, lads we can drop these guys.
You’re obviously fine with everybody being aware of activity in the system on the basis of it being a target. My issue with that is that it discourages small gang play. It becomes a game of escalation and being diplomatically tied to more and more people. Fine if you’re into that sort of thing but leaves little place in the game for guerilla style tactics.
Maybe Eve isn’t your game…
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