Uh, it’s pretty simple where to stop.
If the structure brings x item into being, give ownership. I.e. moon mining.
If y item already existed do not give ownership. I.e. normal asteroid belts.
To even pretend that there is any kind of slippery slope here is an utterly dishonest argument.
No.
Does that satisfy your concerns?
You do not own the moon - You do not own the chunk.
You have to defend what you want. A mechanism is in place to allow this - It’s called low sec or null sec.
You want game mechanics to be changed to allow easier profit for no risk. That is a slippery slope.
Please explain how having to have your miners in the same Corp as the structure thus targetable by wardecs, and having to shoot suspects with your own ships is “No risk”.
This increases the risk to the miners, but provides the structure owner a way to defend the area, it’s a give and take situation.
It’s like half of you posting don’t even know how the mechanics are currently used.
Not to step on your toes, but you’ve been posting here for years and weren’t aware of that?
Or the fact that people often don’t really read what is written,
like this guy here, else he wouldn’t have written this post.
Most people don’t ever think beyond the first conclusion their automatons came up with,
before they move on to the next thing they don’t spend time thinking about.
This guy, for example, completely ignores that the lowsec argument has been adressed and dismissed.
Fact of the matter is that people, who run a moon drill in highsec,
are running a moon-ore-charity out of their pockets.
Thus it ultimately makes no sense to set up a moon drill,
unless you can actually mine it all up on the first day,
which absolutely most people aren’t able to.
Worse, this charity is partly run for literal farmers - who we all know, are a cancer - fielding virtually unkillable ships. All of those who speak up against this idea are the very people who want to leech off of the efforts and money of others.
CCP should either stop allowing setting up moon drills in highsec …
… or should turn people suspect.
Ignoring the personal jibe…
You have two issues here. The first is that HiSec has two mechanisms that allow players to opt out of the sandbox that is war decs, (they can stay in a NPC corp or they can move to a player run corp without deployed structures). HiSec players wanted both of those mechanisms and they can’t have both safety at will and the ability to engage in economic warfare when needed… The two concepts are a dichotomy, a bed has been made and that’s where you sleep.
The second issue you almost acknowledge in your initial post. You generated the chunk to create a resource to be mined. Until it’s in your hold it’s a harvestable resource open to all. The risk is that someone else might harvest the resource before you get to it. This is the same throughout EVE. If a hisec player gets a nice escalation there is a risk another player will enter and harvest the resource. If a mission runner starts a mission there is a risk another player will enter the mission and harvest that npc resource as well.
The best solution I can offer is to Restrict the use of industrial command ships to pilots who can be war decced. This would give you a huge force multiplier for mining, and a war dec option to counter them.
Except in highsec, because people can mine moon ore safely,
forcing other people to run a moon-ore-charity out of their wallets.
Eventually it’s abandoned, exactly because of the leechers,
and the next guy has to shoot it down and put up a new one,
just so the cycle repeats itself.
People who set up a structure can have war declared upon them, but the ones making use of the structure can’t. Often people hide structures behind holding corps to stay safe from those who want to attack the structure. This goes right against CCP Hellmar’s own words, where he stated that people should be showing teeth.
HighSec shouldn’t even have moon ore. It’s too lucrative for the risk involved,
which is barely nothing, which makes a Suspect flag even more desirable.
Thank you for adding to the pro-arguments.
Firstly, I would like to clarify that, while I liked the above posts, a suspect flag is not my preference, but something I think would be better than doing nothing at all.
Secondly, I’d like to address the claim of HS moon ore being desirable. The Ubiquitous ores available in HS are of somewhat questionable value. Two of them are pretty close to the lowest market values in the game for ore, if not the lowest. All of them rank well below veldspar. Even putting aside for the moment the values of the ores themselves, moon ore is not compressable which complicates logistics for those not refining it locally, further detracting from its desirability. (I like the feature because it encourages people to stay local rather than export everything to a mega-factory somewhere.)
(If you mean that moon mining in general, rather than the specific minerals that are classified as moon specific, are too valuable, then I agree with this. Apologies if I misunderstood.)
The essential analysis, though, applies to me. Running a moon drill is basically a charity, and the charity goes to the wealthy with big ships and alts. I had dreams of providing alphas or newbies with some special ores to mine that would be of particular value to them when I anchored refineries, but I instead ended up enriching exactly the kind of players I didn’t want to and diminishing the value of once rare materials.
The mantra “don’t anchor it if you can’t defend it” applies to what actions you should take in game. Clearly, I should not have set up a refinery, and I regret having done so. This mantra does not, however, obviate any and all discussions on what should be possible, or what mechanics should regulate the options available to players. Thus, I don’t think it has any relevance in the context of this topic.
I think there is a clear lack of vulnerability on both sides. ‘Ninja’ miners are immune to wardec, and the ‘carebear’ miners are also immune to wardec. A fair change should reasonably affect both, or grant some sort of advantage to those who are vulnerable that those who are immune would envy to a significant degree.
Again, suspect flagging is not what I would prefer, but it is fair, and I would not mind giving it a shot, even though it would negatively affect some of my current diplomatic arrangements. I want people to be able to do stuff, and face player repercussions for what they do.
I did no such thing.
I pointed out that the issue is that HiSec dwellers want the ability to avoid war decs and that is one of your problems.
I gave you a potential solution, that would allow you to out harvest any non war deccable entity. You ignored this.
Let’s look at your posts in this thread.
You want only the group that created the chunk to be able to mine it “safely” , justified by the logic…
Which is a bit ambiguous, does he mean “people should run highest moon mining charities” or do you mean “other people can mine it so I am forced to run a charity”.
Ah, some clarity here
So what do you want?
You want the benefits of HiSec but you don’t want the bits of HiSec that aren’t beneficial to you. Instead you want to apply the good bit of LowSec, (ability to shoot anyone not in your corp / alliance) to apply here while you keep that HiSec safety net
And then you drop this in…
I think you are trying to say that there is no risk for those that can’t be war decced. (That’s true but that how HIsec works), and because of this there should be no moon mining in HiSec.
“it’s my ball and I don’t want to play anymore”
To re-iterate my position.
There is a problem with War Dec avoidance., but it doesn’t justify making moon mining a “i chunked it thus I can kill everyone near it” thing.
The solution is introducing a system where some big ships can’t be in none war decable corps. (Since stopping orcas etc from being in hisec would be silly), stop certain people being in industrial command ships thus giving people like you a huge advantage, (and let the little guy ninja mine “your” chunk if he wants to risk it)…
What would you prefer?
Yeah…That’s the subject at hand.
What?!
What assbackwards logic is this?
I won’t contaminate your thread with my off topic wishlist. Adding more options seems to slow people from reaching consensus on any option. I may make a thread of my own at some point, if I find the time to spend on it that it deserves.
The suspect flag seems feasible under our current systems (as in it would not take long to implement), and it is generally a fair kneecap to both ninja mining and out of corp wardec shielding. I will just let the suggestion stand as is in hope that something is done.
Ok, so the orca has to be in a Corp with a structure… but can Corp hop all they want…
But wait… you’ve also just made it so any command destroyer, command ship, battle cruiser or t3 also has to be in a war deccable Corp as well since they can fit mining boosts.
And none of the rest of the barges have to be in a Corp.
In short, your proposal is utterly unworkable, as the side effects of it are vastly more than the main effects.
Serial Corp hopping to avoid war decs used to be a petitionable thing. Did that change? (Admittedly I am going back a bit, happy to be corrected, but again this is all really an issue with war dec mechanics and not specific to your challenges)
I didn’t, you expanded it not me. I stipulated industrial command ships for a reason: I have no idea about the porpoise but for example the orca gets the 100% bonus to drone yield, and at max skills has the 15% bonus to mining boosts, 50% to drone yield etc. It’s a productive mining ship that is also a mining force multiplier. Any other ship with mining bursts isn’t as useful or viable.
Skiffs would be an issue, but is fair to restrict them to war deccable corps as well? Procs can be dealt with by suicide gank catalysts. Remember that every time you gank them the impact is both isk and time. Or just gank the haulers? Yes they could use DST’s I suppose, but that’s a lot of training and isk.
Are you a miner, or did you spend a few months mining in the past?
It’s one of my side gigs, so to speak.
Some evenings its fun to break out the HiSec barge gang and talk to old eve friends without being distracted by chasing goons around. Sometimes I can’t commit to a null sec op; maybe I am alone at home and their is a risk that eve time will be interrupted by waking child, sometimes a pvp fleet will likely run until late and I want to get an early night. Sometimes it’s just been a tough day at work and I want to relax and avoid interacting with people while interacting with 3/4 of a bottle of wine and staring at rocks.
I have been doing this on and off since 2004
You probably have, or you have?
Can you just answer the question directly and not so vague, please? 
I usually have a fleet out twice a week for 4-6 hours at a time.
Cool.
Should you go suspect for docking in a structure and not spending any money there?