I’m pretty sure I stated in my “Stuff” that the numbers were not accurate and I was just proving that it can be fun to watch huge threads like this just to watch trends.
Seeing as YOU obviously didn’t learn economics at school, let me put you straight. Price inflation and inflation are two entirely different mechanisms. True inflation has a different cause (and a different cure) than the price inflation/increse of goods (and services) caused by constantly changing supply and demand conditions. We players cannot just fix inflation ingame as we see fit, there are far too many things for us to consider which render that nigh on impossible. If prices are hiked (price inflation) by everybody just due to this latest issue of mineral redistribution then there is not a lot anyone can do about it and we will have to wait until the panic buying dies down and mineral depletion steadies out. Until then, i suggest you go learn some economics please…
In a way yes. But that’s not the point. The point is too much faucet is what has driven asset stockpiling. You can afford to leave stuff on the sidelines because you have too much money. But isk impact is only one impact. Broadly speaking, I see it like this.
If you mine to sell, your gameplay is worse (more traveling around) and your economics are worse (price inflation for stuff will be faster than minerals on average). But both effects aren’t huge.
If you are an integrated manufacturer, it’s worse for your gameplay and probably neutral to your economics.
If you just indy (without mining), it’s worse for your gameplay (more flying around) and neutral for your economics.
If you pvp, it’s a win for your gameplay and worse for your economics (but that tends not to be the driver of pvp anyway)
If you haul, it’s good on both counts.
If you do any other pve, it doesn’t affect your gameplay but it’s worse for your economics.
The net of it is, mining/industry folks have a hit to both gameplay and economics which is why they are complaining
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Just STFU if you don’t know what you are saying…
What Is Inflation?
Inflation is a quantitative measure of the rate at which the average price level of a basket of selected goods and services in an economy increases over some period of time. It is the rise in the general level of prices where a unit of currency effectively buys less than it did in prior periods. Often expressed as a percentage, inflation thus indicates a decrease in the purchasing power of a nation’s currency.
Causes of Inflation
Rising prices are the root of inflation, though this can be attributed to different factors. In the context of causes, inflation is classified into three types: Demand-Pull inflation, Cost-Push inflation, and Built-In inflation.
We are in case 2:
Cost-Push Effect
Cost-push inflation is a result of the increase in the prices of production process inputs. Examples include an increase in labor costs to manufacture a good or offer a service or increase in the cost of raw material. These developments lead to higher cost for the finished product or service and contribute to inflation.
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You are wasting your time trying to teach economics in a comment thread but I applaud the clear description of the issue.
I do wonder if CCP understands what inflation is based on these changes.
Lazy gankers go for stupid targets. Smart gankers who do difficult kills still only press win button.
Nobody, hardly anyone, absurd. Those are bold statements. But how do you know?
Demagogy is strong in this one.
It wasn’t me who wanted to play single-player EVE. There is X series, it’s almost EVE-offline, nice games. X:btF lots of fond memories. Quite successful series, does have it’s audience.
FTFY
You claim that you know design goals of EVE. Just as you claim to be experienced in game design. But you truly arent and you dont know much, based on things you keep parroting.
You used call people useless pve farmers perma victims, but you werent really against pve, you were against other groups. Your corp pve guys and miners are fine, right? That’s xenophobia.
On game design, just found a nice paper Player Characteristics and Video Game Preferences
The Player Traits model [72], which is inspired by the trait theories of personality, posits that each player is characterized by a set of five different scores, each score measuring where their preferences sit on a continuum for each player trait. The five player traits are:
Aesthetic orientation: Players who score high on this trait enjoy the aesthetic experiences in games, siuch as exploring the world, observing the scenery, or appreciating the quality of the graphics, sound, and art style. On the other hand, players who score low might focus more on the gameplay than the aesthetics of the game.
Narrative orientation: Players who score high on this trait enjoy complex stories or narratives within games, whereas players who score low usually prefer games with less story and might skip the cutscenes when they get in the way of gameplay.
Goal orientation: Players who score high on this trait enjoy completing game goals, quests, or tasks, and like to complete games 100%, explore all the options, and complete all the collections. On the other hand, players who score low might leave optional quests unfinished and are usually more relaxed if they do not complete a game 100%.
Social orientation: Players who score high on this trait generally prefer to play together with others online or in the same space and enjoy multiplayer games and competitive gaming communities. On the other hand, players who score low would usually prefer to play alone.
Challenge orientation: Players who score high on this trait generally prefer difficult games, hard challenges, and fastpaced gameplay, whereas players who score low might prefer easier or casual games.
People play all kinds of games, but they play them differently, and enjoy different facets of games.
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Nonsense. You’re ignoring the difficulty and failure chance involved with setting up a gank against a smart target. It’s only a “win button” if you only consider the brief moment once the gank fleet has done the work of setting up a kill and activates their weapons to make it official.
But how do you know?
I don’t know absolutely beyond any possible doubt. But if you’ve got some evidence that people are paying $15/month to spin their ships (and do nothing else) then I’d like to see it.
It wasn’t me who wanted to play single-player EVE.
Then what’s your point? Why are you jumping in to attack my criticism of this hypothetical single-player EVE?
You used call people useless pve farmers perma victims, but you werent really against pve, you were against other groups.
I never claimed to be against all players who do PvE. In fact I have said explicitly, over and over again, that the perma-victims/farmer trash/etc are the PvE players who demand that CCP remove all risk and difficulty from the game so they can sit AFK in a PvE site and watch their wallet numbers go up faster.
People play all kinds of games, but they play them differently, and enjoy different facets of games.
And, again, none of these things apply to EVE without other players.
Aesthetic orientation gets a little bit of support, but once you’ve captured some screenshots with your alpha account there’s nothing left to do. And there’s certainly no reason to pay for the game if all you want to do is admire the pretty pictures.
Narrative orientation gets almost zero support in either real EVE or single player EVE. There is barely any narrative content in EVE (outside of player-created events), and you can experience those few paragraphs of mission text in a very short time.
Goal orientation would be supported, but only in the form of a bunch of tedious grinding to fill the progress meter to 100%. At no point would you be doing anything new in your quest to build one of every item or whatever, it would be purely a question of whether you’re willing to spend the required time to get your guaranteed completion.
Social orientation obviously wouldn’t be supported at all because there are no other players.
Challenge orientation would barely be supported. There’s some challenge as you learn the game, but it quickly drops to zero and success becomes automatic. This kind of player might play for a short time, but I doubt many of them would get to the point of making even a single monthly payment before getting bored.
So that’s it, you’re left with a handful of people playing EVE just to slog through the menial grind of accomplishing some arbitrary “do everything at least once” checklist. Good luck making that game profitable.
Its only win button if you ignore all the prep work done in PVE, is it not?
Since 2009 I’ve spent at least 6 months of paid sub just watching my skills train, pretty sure I made some spins meanwhile.
If you follow the link and scroll the paper there is a list of games they examined. There are single player games there also. People play single player games for narrative, for goals, for challenge, etc.
Eve has massive lore. Chronicles, books, scope vids. Trigs and Drifters… Do you even play? )
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I guess you have not seen how hard they are getting owned https://br.evetools.org/br/5f7b6fcaf2b14c001b20b268
Eh Im sure they know what theyre doing.
they did that a few years ago, and the bar for entry is relatively low. It’s called the Orca.
It’s even got an engine.
the problem with POS code is well documented. Short version: it’s too intertwined with other elements (eg cloaking) to simply rip it out.
When I first read about this update, I wasn’t happy about it.
My character is a patriotic Caldari citizen who does contact work for the military. The only manufacturing i do in a regular basis is making ammunition, and making zydrine harder to get was going to make that more difficult. Then I realized that if looting and reproccing was analogous to policing my brass and casting my own bullets in real life, then buying zydrine off the market is analogous to me buying gunpowder to reload with.
I’ve made peace with this change to eve and found a way to make it fit with my character concept, and I hope you do too(though I realize my situation is not the same as you who are dedicated miners or industrialists).
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I stand to be corrected by way of zkill links, but a properly tanked orca is extremely difficult to gank.
I have an alt who sits in an Orca with over 500k ehp. Abyssaled up the wazoo. I have zero fear bipping through highsec in that. I don’t even bother to scout ahead.
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chiming in:
- Keeping Highsec relevant.
- Why should wormholers, who can effectively maintain their isolation from known space as it is if they’re properly vigilant, keep their utopia?
- Citation needed.
- Because there is far too much in corp and individual caches already? I bet even after the battle in FW- the other day, GSF/Imperium aren’t even feeling the trillion plus ISK-worth dent in their reserves. Please, can a Goon with inside knowledge confirm or deny this?
- They’re not ignoring it at all, if they were truly messing up the game as badly as the noisy minority are claiming and have been claiming throughout the four years and change I’ve been playing, then who’d want to play it at all, not to speak of bothering to vent on the forum built for discourse about the game!?
- I’m assuming this is regarding the mineral yield changes from not so long ago: Moon goo is moon goo, it’s exotic and an essential component of some systems.
And one back at you: Why should any particular certain group of players get ALL the breaks? Pick one; wormholers, moon miners, HS belt miners, LS belt miners, NS belt miners…? Aaaand… go.
I guess you BA in Economics is useless if you can’t get the grasp of a simple inflation model. You should have paid more attention to your classes. This is part of Keynes work, I guess you’ve heard about him if you didn’t sleep too much during your classes.
I gave earlier a kindergarten example of price inflation, you can take it and show it to your Economics teacher and ask him/her, if that is not causing inflation… maybe your teacher can explain it better than me.
If you don’t understand that in an economy where the 75% of the trade goods (ships, modules, ammo, capital components, etc) depend on the minerals, the effect is increasing their production cost, which means increasing their retail price, which leads to a lower purchasing power of ISK. If the change was on Ice (for example) the impact in the macro economy was smaller, as less products require Ice products for manufacturing. Or the gas mined for the booster market, the impact would be marginal.
When you are doing a change which affects the base components of the whole industry, you affect the whole macro economy. In this case, by reducing the availability of base components, you increase their price and increase the rate of inflation.
HS is still relevant. If you check the MER for Aug 2020, you will see the number of jumps in HS. You also will see that in the TOP5 regions based on the total market trade value, 4 are HS regions. Check your facts.
Your answer is not valid.
Because that is their playstyle? You are saying that you should mess with thousands of people living in WH? Let’s get rid of WH-space and make the whole K-space NS.
Go listen to the video. If you say citation is needed then you didn’t see the video…
And exactly that’s one of the reasons it’s a stupid move. What will happen after that is that despite the increase in prices, NS blocks are going to be affected less than small corps or players. This will increase the discrepancies between rich and poor groups. The SRP programs existing within the NS blocks are going to get most of the market.
Again, go watch the video… That’s what CCP said.
Actually, some time ago they introduced normal minerals in the reprocessing of moon goo. This was removed in March 2020 (if I’m not mistaken).
What do you mean ALL the breaks?
WH space is more dangerous than any other space. And mining in the WH is the most dangerous mining at all. Even in NS you will know if you have a hostile in system. In WH as you don’t have local and cloaked ships exists, you can never be sure you are safe or not. Sounds like you’ve never lived in WH-space.
Moon miners… you need to set-up a moon mining operation in order to do the moon mining, it’s not as easier as it was with POSes
HS belt miners: I think everything works fine for them at the moment.
LS belt miners: I think everything works fine for them also. Higher payout, but higher risk than HS.
NS belt miners: I think everything works fine for them also. Higher payout, but higher risk than both HS and LS.
I lived in all the space HS/LS/NS/WH and saw how the life goes there.
It was only added about 2 years previous, CCP decided it was a mistake and having an adverse impact on the market.
P.S. I like how you haven’t bothered to acknowledge your error in basic hauling mechanics.
Um, no.
In PvE the preparation is all done up front: training the required skills, learning basic EVE mechanics, and buying an appropriate farming ship. Once you’ve done that no further (meaningful) effort is required and victory is automatic for the rest of your PvE time. Doing another mission/running another site/etc is very much a win button.
If you are trying to profitably gank smart players the preparation has to be done over and over again for each kill, and the chance of failure remains. You’re doing the equivalent of looking at the final shot against a ship with 1% hull HP remaining and saying “WOW WHAT A WIN BUTTON”.
Since 2009 I’ve spent at least 6 months of paid sub just watching my skills train, pretty sure I made some spins meanwhile.
I said “spinning their ships and doing nothing else”, not “obtaining valuable resources and maybe doing a spin or two while you’re at it”. Plenty of people keep their EVE accounts active to accumulate SP, I have yet to see any evidence for the claim that any of them are paying $15/month just to spin their ships.
If you follow the link and scroll the paper there is a list of games they examined. There are single player games there also. People play single player games for narrative, for goals, for challenge, etc.
What’s your point? None of my comments apply to single player games in general. There are plenty of good single player games, it’s just that a hypothetical single player version of EVE wouldn’t be one.
Eve has massive lore. Chronicles, books, scope vids. Trigs and Drifters… Do you even play? )
The vast majority of which does not exist in the actual game. Reading one of the EVE novels does not require paying $15/month or even logging in to the game at all.
(And yes, I consider CCP’s failure to incorporate more in-game narrative elements a very bad thing. But the unfortunate reality is that they have failed.)
That isn’t hard though, it’s just some hauling ships around and identifying a target. It’s actually easier than a PvE player planning how to win a mission. It’s time consuming yes, but that doesn’t make it difficulty.