Well…normally yeah. But tell me, what is the substitute for trit? Hint: nothing. So the price impact will be pure income effect with no substitution effect.
Just like Aegis Sov, the failure to provide a ‘same war, same side, same fleet’ carve-out in the wardec revamp, Resource Wars, FoBs, Pirate ECs, Angel Capitals, Walking in Stations… the list goes on and on.
‘We’re totally going to iterate’ is about as worthless as a $3 bill. Let’s see them follow through, instead of just saying ‘you all need to trust us’ without any actual track record that says we should.
WarSkiffs
[Skiff, DDABrick]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Hornet EC-300 x5
Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x2
Mining Drone II x5
Valkyrie II x3
Warrior II x2
124k ehp, 233 dps each. Gimme a dozen of those and a trio of boosting Porpoises w/RSBs, I’m not gonna worry about small gangs. And let’s face it, mining fleets that size are a dime a dozen (pun intended).
And then pivoted to try to claim you were saying something else. Just shut the hell up and stop being an idiot, for once in your life.
No, they don’t. And the stream made that really clear, because any time anyone asked them what the end result should look like, they immediately got evasive and started babbling about how they totally have a plan, but they might need to completely change everything about the plan if players find out about the plan, because if players knew what the end result should look like, CCP couldn’t let the end result look like that.
Not exactly inspiring confidence, there.
2 Likes
This too, oh and look these don’t have substitutes either. I can go, “Hmmm…isogen is pricey…but I can use extra pyerite and get around that and keep my costs lower than just paying the isogen price increase.”
Where you could see some substitution is in players dropping down from say a battleship to a battlecruiser. They might shift from higher end ammo to lower end, or shift to drones or say lasers with T1 crystals. Players will try to find ways to minimize the impact here.
“Isogen is pricey, but I can take extra pyerite, sell it, and buy isogen with that ISK.”
I mean, I’m not saying it’s a perfect workaround, but you’ve got options. I can see others, but if folks haven’t spotted them, I don’t see why I should give up a competitive advantage.
Yeah…sure. But there is also opportunity cost there too. I have to first get the pyerite vs. just buying the isogen and going on about my normal process. It will result in new behavior/adaptions which makes the player worse off than prior to the change.
1 Like
Which you still would have needed to get in your scenario of:
I mean, my scenario is basically that same thing, I’m just detailing how you’re ‘getting around that’ and how you ‘use’ the extra pyerite to do it… by selling it to buy isogen.
True, I could go mine it. Or I could just buy it (assuming I could use in place of isogen)…but the second option is a no-go since it just cannot be done. So I either spend time mining, sell it and use that to buy the isogen and maybe that helps…but in the end I am still be worse off. Overall I find this change rather baffling. It seems like an awfully sweeping change to address…what exactly? A supposedly unhealthy “ecosystem” (FFS, just call it an economy CCP). Unhealthy how?
Heh…isogen prices in 1DQ have nearly doubled…and tritanium prices jumped 25%.
Trit prices in Jita have already jumped up. Median price of Isogen is now at 48+
But “real world economics” doesn’t apply the EVE. 
1 Like
Many of my friends loved Eve Online, they liked it for its stories, its lore and many things that could only be found in this game, I recommended my friends to install it and play it, and despite the fact that Eve is a game that is very difficult to progress, I insisted my friends to give it a try and enjoy it. But after seeing the things the company is doing with this (and surely other future patches), I think that this game is no longer worth recommending.
I don’t know what future plans CCP has for this game, but the decisions it is making are only causing the player base to decline. It is already a fact that CCP wants to monetize the game as other companies do, a clear example are the smartphone’s videogames with their nefarious policies, that is no longer a secret.
It is obvious that in the long term other types of ships and modules will be greatly affected, and CCP apparently wants to make that very clear to us. It is very certain that ratters will be the next affected, as CCP is very keen to nerf combat anomalies, so in the near future, say goodbye to ratter supercarriers, ratter carriers and ratter battleships. (Not to mention that from the application of this infamous patch, it will be more difficult to acquire a ship superior to a battlecruiser).
2 Likes
Thank you CCP, I believe that we’re on a good path here. Having null ores and thus null minerals in highsec back when they spawned at moons was painful for me to see, as the purpose of the sec secmentation became rather meaningless. I was happy when you removed that and now seeing an even clearer segmentation coming up is really healthy for the game, thanks and keep it up!
Well, when they say ‘ecosystem’, are they talking ECOlogy… or ECOnomy? 
After all, it’s definitely an economic system.
As for how it’s unhealthy…we’ve had too much accretion for too long. When we sent out the call to our lapsed pilots this month, Mynnna and Pokano contracted over a few trillion in ISK and assets to the alliance… each.
They’re not the richest folks we have. When Aryth used to decide to move the market value of things… he did it. Every time. And we’re not talking about niche items with limited use. We’re talking about things like ice products.
There’s people all over null with that kind of wealth, too, not just us. That kind of ready cash screws up the pricing on things, because we can throw oodles of ISK at items, which drives the prices up. And income inequality is incredibly unhealthy for an economic engine.
But the problem isn’t the lack of scarcity, it’s the fact that the only check on accretion is destruction, and even with these changes, we’ll still build more than we destroy, just because when we (the players) don’t feel like we can afford to keep throwing crap away… we stop. When you’re dealing with real economies, you don’t need wars or violence to force people to trash their crap… it wears out. It needs maintenance. It needs repairs.
Repair costs are a joke now. For as much as a keepstar costs, every structure we have in Delve has been paid for in repair costs saved. All of ‘em. Both in ‘repair my armor damage’ and ‘repair my heat damage’ terms, because it all just goes away, for free, when you tether. The structure doesn’t even use anything up to do it. No operating expenses at all for ships, unless you count jump fuel and ammunition. No upkeep, no maintenance, no crew costs, no sublight reaction mass costs… nothin’.
Scarcity inevitably leads to hoarding. The threat of it leads to hoarding. Not because it’s economically necessary, but because human beings are creatures of familiar routine and panicked stampedes. So… it’s gonna go down like that again. Just like always.
6 Likes
CCP have zero idea what they’re doing this is a Sandbox game, First ships double in price with the first nerf you do and it hasn’t effected anyone but new and returning players, Then you put the price up for GBP which is now crazy expensive, You now do this stupid change which lets face it effects newer players the most while pissing off older players, you need to make people risk loosing ships all this will do is force everyone into cruisers and no one will risk anything. I Preorder for my PS5 because EVE is not worth playing, I will unsubscribe all my accounts. Also you’re at massive risk of loosing players to WOW since there’s a new expansion coming out. Leave sandbox economy alone or it’s not player controlled.
4 Likes
This is just a bad and lazy idea. Wormholers might as well pack up and leave if they were doing any mining operations, all belts are now just the same, whereas before there was at least some variety per faction. I agree removing the ore anomalies is okay, but you could have just made them so where you need to scan them up and make charting a big deal.
This hasn’t made mining better: CCP just murdered it.
5 Likes
They’re creating a shortage of resources.
They’re just creating a shortage of players and drive to play. Whatever they lose now, they’ll NOT regain when they remove this “temporary” shortage…which will become permanent. Mark my words
3 Likes
Fair point and it is clearly the case that there are similarities between the two types of processes.
Sure, but if you are aiming at the people at the top this seems a poor solution in that they’ll be the ones best suited to deal with it. I am more sanguine about inequality generally speaking, but in the extreme it can have adverse outcomes - that is, some inequality is not an issue and may even be good kind of like inflation and/or deflation, but too much and it can be bad.
How to deal with people sitting on vast piles of ISK and assets? I don’t know. This however, is not how I’d go about doing it.
Yes, that is the big difference there is no depreciation for assets. If I leave my megathron in my hangar for 2 years…it works just fine. I don’t need to spend ISK to keep it up.
Not sure I entirely agree. Hoarding is a reaction when people have an expectation that something that was once widely available is no longer available, especially if prices are not allowed to adjust. In fact, right now…I bet these changes are causing people to hold onto their ore/minerals. Of course, as I just noted prices have already adjusted so it won’t be that bad, IMO. In fact, some of the increase in prices may be clawed back as people who were sitting on large amounts of various minerals decide it is a good time to sell and dump them on the markets in coming hours/days.
But those players who are both rich and smart in terms of the EVE markets and pay close attention to these things will likely benefit significantly while those who don’t will be the ones to bear the burden…which is not exactly a great way to try and solve this problem, IMO.
Nor I. I’d introduce upkeep costs, cleverly disguised as a way to get a 5% bonus to different things. Pay X ISK, get ‘superior crew’ for one of a number of ship’s systems: PG, shields, armor, capacitor, weapon accuracy, weapon damage, sensors… for 24h. Pay 20X, get it for that ship for a month, etc etc.
Let’s face it, people will pay. We spend ISK on drugs to achieve the same thing for 60-120 minutes, after all. You start there, then you move into ways to make it cost assets, like minerals or ice or stront or fuel or reaction compounds, etc… and then it’s an asset sink.
Hoarding and risk aversion are reactions to instability, especially when they can’t predict how that instability will shake out. And prices have adjusted… for today. Let’s see how much more they adjust when the changes actually go live.
Inevitable result of change, I’m afraid. That’s how it’s always been, throughout history. The intelligent people with resources and power weather changes better—especially when coupled with numbers and organization.
1 Like
Well mining incomes will go up…but than again so will the stuff you want to buy with that income…so…
This will end up affecting all players not just miners.
That’s not a bad idea…of course some people will complain that people are buying an advantage…but when you have mountains of ISK…that’s going to be a problem no matter what.
I guess it depends…do you believe in rational expectations and the efficient market hypothesis or not? I am more skeptical of those ideas these days…but we’ll see what happens. I wouldn’t be surprised if prices come down a bit in the near future.
Indeed…
The Rorqual was always meant to be a mobile mining station - Clone bay, huge hangers, ability to Cyno.
I may have misunderstood the underlying reason behind the changes to redistribution but the Rorq will have a place as a mobile mining platform for Indy players to roam and dock in going forward.
I will take effort and planning to get to new systems, but if they nerf it again it would be almost impossible to get a fleet into other hostile space.
The NPC fleets already have DPS support - it seems that going forward so will the rest of us.
The changes aint great or well timed but CCP being cruel as an Eve player makes us more determined to find ways to negate their changes
2 Likes
That is correct.
1 Like