I need to add something to the pdf-website thing:
it’s not about like or dislike but simply the fact that the game is constantly changing disqualifies pdf as a suitable format. pdf is a format designed to be not alterable.
Also, let me express my thoughts about the release: all the work into making the document look good is futile if the document doesnt get published. the game changes, so the document does, that is no reason to hold it back. i would not want to see all the work being put into this to just disappear.
It’s a moot point, I cannot get my site to properly display this stuff in a way I’m happy with, right now, so I’ll keep working on it. I have a prototype right now, and will continue to work on it. The graphic design on the buttons is important, but that lags behind how important it is to make things easy to consume.
I don’t think I could easily make the clickable button thing, but we’ll see.
I’ll point out that I got around 150 visitors in the past week. And I see a way to get even more, because we can nail down into the particular topics in either minor depth or GREAT depth.
And the reason I tried to move to email is because I don’t get notifications for posts on this forum.
Anyway, keep it up. Look forward to your updated version that includes the new feature that was just released on Tuesday, the shared group sites, which pay really well for 5 people, and are super easy to do.
Hello, this is September 2023 calling.
Great work on updating this classic infographic!
Are there future plans to add newly added content such as Homefront Operations?
Yeah, I need to do a big revision and pick up on some of the Beta feedback. I might aim to get this out in the next year. Aside from the obvious Homefront ops, do you have any other suggestions?
Very mini update … Currently planning where to slot things on the chart, which is pretty complex. But I’m gradually getting there!
I’ve picked up on the feedback from @DeMichael_Crimson which was really helpful (mostly because it was very specific!) but if others doe want to offer feedback please feel free to post something here, but please do try to be very specific.
At the moment I’m particularly trying to work out where to slot the Havoc low-sec stuff so any thoughts on this would be appreciated!
You have done a wonderful job with this chart thus far, but it was incredibly hard to find the open-beta release links (the first of which is now broken anyways) – especially for people unfamiliar with the forum and how it works.
Can you maybe edit your initial post to include the latest google drive link (or perhaps just the PDF and a link thereto) at the top? I think that’d be a good way to get some exposure and help some new players out, especially when the mini-update comes out
Thanks for the post and the positive feedback, much appreciated.
I was a bit concerned about the links - I thought through the download strategy carefully to make sure that it was as easy as possible so I would’ve been quite annoyed if these had broken somehow. However, I just clicked on the links and they both worked okay for me. The second link is to the Google download site and that worked fine. The first link is to a Dropbox download site and that did try to get me to log in first (I tried accessing both without being effectively logged in just to replicate what a random user might experience) - based on this though, I might change the order in which they are listed within the post to prioritise the Google site first.
Also having said all this, I think the point that you made, that it might be worth including some kind of link to the beta download within the initial post is very well made. I hadn’t thought of doing this before but looking at it now it seems blindingly obvious (doh!) and I’ve now done this (and credited you too!)
I should say though that although most of the interaction with end-users on the chart (suggestion for changes, stylistic input, etc) has been within this post up to this point, the long-term plan is to write a new post at the point where the chart is finished to launchable standard.
This post will function as a single user feedback portal (so none of the development story, ongoing change log, etc) and it’ll also point people towards a page on EVE University’s Wiki where you can find the chart - I’ve been in conversation with them, and they’re very happy to host this.
I hope that makes sense!
As I said above though, I really do appreciate the feedback.
Sorry to not have been more active here, I’ve been procrastinating too much!
Adv. Broker Relations isn’t a thing anymore. All buy orders must be provisionned fully, the skill effect has been changed.
In the legend, I feel like above the wall of text starting with “Each career card…”, there should probably a two word TLDR. Just put “- DIFFICULTY +” below the example difficulty markers, and “+ ISK -” below the ISK markers. There is room inside the empty example box for that
In the community section, I wonder why “Organize a meet-up” requires an isk investment?
In the “Volunteering” subsection, since all card titles are in uppercase, there is nothing to distinguish an acronym from a regular word. So I would probably put little dots between each letter when it’s an acronym. i.e “S.T.A.R” instead of “STAR”.
PVP section, I’d suggest adding a separate section for Lancer Ganking, since Jump Freighters aren’t really “fragile targets” in the common sense of the “Gate Bombing” card. Also, it’s worth raising awareness IMO!
Hauling: It could be worth doing to add some kind of Zarzakh hauling card, or Zarzakh / Thera hauling card perhaps… Not sure how much it’s worth its own card but if there is enough people doing it, it’s definitely different enough from other types of “non-JF dangerous station hauling” to warrant its own card.
Wormhole mapping: Perhaps you should rework the text to include doing wormhole mapping commercially, i.e Wingspan wormhole location service.
Obviously, adding Homefront operations but you have already been made aware.
I’d also suggest adding Strongholds.
The POS extraction / reaction cards should of course be reworked.
Refining cards seem like they should have their ISK cost reduced. It’s doesn’t seem like a max difficulty ISK investment to me.
And… That’s it for now haha! Good luck updating the chart with all of our feedback!
EDIT: Ah, once last thing, it could be obvious given the design of my version of the chart, but I feel like your beta chart has too little contrast. The background is desaturated + too white, & the cards’s background aren’t different enough from the white text, I’d recommend a darker grey. Obviously just my opinion
It’s very difficult to use due to being a PDF that needs zooming in and being kinda massive, there are way too many steps needed to actually get info from it. It would be better if it were a PNG or perhaps a JPG what people can click on and zoom in on with ease, this makes it easier for them to browse and easier for us to give to newbies and actually expect them to use it.
Right now almost everyone uses the old one, partially because they might not know this new one exists (community beat will help with that) but it’s also a “yeah nobody is going to read that” thing.
I think you make a reasonable point here @Aisha_Katalen although what I would say in order for the chart to cover the complexity of available activities within EVE, by it’s nature, it’s going to be complex. The size is reflective of this. I’m not necessarily adverse to turning it into a JPG but I’d need to consider what file size a file like that might have (also remember, at the moment it’s still in Beta, so the final formats will be decided later …).
The other reason to make it a little larger was to enable people to get it printed at their local print shop as a poster for sticking on the wall. I wanted the resolution to be pretty high so that when you do get a print done, it looks good.
Having said all this. One thing I am going to try to do in the final version is to make extracts of the various spines available as stand alone charts, so that you can just look at PvE for example.
I think at some point in the future what I also might do is create a chart for rookies, using the architecture of this one but focussing on the career agent paths and early entry activities.
Perhaps it looks better in Adobe, but I’m not gonna buy that just to see, or spend an hour searching for some third-party tool to view the chart. As is, most people will struggle to view it. It’s your choice whether you want people to see it.
Your chart wasn’t always in .pdf format, and it was better before you changed it.
I think you’re doing a very good job on it and should stay true to your vision of how it should be presented.
Main thing is do not let yourself be pressured or coerced into doing a complete rework due to a couple of nay-sayers, especially when their forum posting history is filled with negative mocking replies.
Some of us are actually “in the trenches” helping people in rookie channel and elsewhere on a structural level. I’ve never ever seen anyone use the new one for reasons explained earlier. If it’s not used it’s not doing its job and all the effort is wasted. If info isn’t easily accessible while it’s meant to be exactly that then it misses the point.
You can be salty about people stating that message, I really don’t care, but if you actually care about newbies and having them have more (and updated) information to help them figure out how they can find their own niche in this game, that’s probably more important than personal opinions.
@DeMichael_Crimson Thanks for the reply I really appreciate it. You’ve been a really helpful person during the project so I really value your input and wisdom.
I am pretty happy with it so far to be honest. I think I will think hard about offering multiple formats when it goes into the final version, if for no other reason than to give players several choices as to how they access the chart.
One thing that might be of interest is that I have also checked the chart consistently via a rather brilliant app called SimDaltonism. This lets the user simulate colour blindness. It’s a fantastic app for graphic designers to help them make sure their designs are accessible for all kinds of colour vision.
I’m happy to say that the chart works well through all six kinds of colour blindness and is also good via partial monochromacy. Full monochromacy is slightly more problematic but there is still good contrast on all of the text.
