Just a ping to keep the thread open …
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You aren’t supposed to necro threads that have been inactive for this long.
Do you have a current one? For this or last year?
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The download links at the top of the thread are for the current chart.
I have been trying to work on a more polished, updated and improved version of the chart for a while (that would also incorporate added activity changes that have come in since I did the first revision) but sadly it’s been the most horrendous couple of years - my partner had to battle colon cancer, my Mum had a stroke and my Dad died - so I’m running way behind where I thought I’d be at this point. I am sorry to people for this fairly significant delay, but the truth is that real life happens and sometimes EVE Online does has to come second.
I am committed, however, to getting a revised version out because I know that the chart is a brilliant resource that EVE players find useful and informative and depend on to a degree.
Right now, I don’t want to put a hard timeline on when this will be (I’m still dealing with the fallout and legal minutiae from my Dad’s death and supporting my Mum’s recovery [my partner’s cancer is thankfully behind us now]), and I don’t want to overpromise and underdeliver.
I hope people can understand my perspective here and bear with me in the interim.
Thanks.
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@Mu_ad_Diib Thank you for working on the chart when you have time. It looks real good!
My condolences to you for the passing of you dad. I hope that your mum and partner are doing better.
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Thanks for the supportive comment @Meona_Sherie .
Like they say, the best ship in EVE is the Friend Ship and it means a lot to me to be supported by you an other awesome people here.
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Small Update:
I have actually made a little progress in the chart recently.
Like most things, making something complicated is frequently quite easy. On the other hand, taking complex information, trying to convey this in a simple and straightforward way (like in an in an infographic) can be complex; when you then add in the parameters of artwork creation (talking here about things like Adobe InDesign, Adobe Illustrator, EPS resolution, layering, transparency and simple hyperlinking and so on), it can get very complex very quickly.
My aim with the next version of the chart was to reduce the file size (hence the points above about layering and transparency), correct the errors in the beta release so that it was 100% accurate, and also add new content (eg: Homefront Operations, etc). In addition to this, I wanted to ensure that the colour version was fully accessible in terms of vision (including colour blindness), and possibly also create a high-contrast black and white version for those who might find it easier.
On top of this, I wanted to tweak the background architecture so that it was very easy to physically and technically update it, effectively future-proofing it, hopefully.
Flies in the ointment since I put out the first ‘live’ version have been a seriously ill partner, the death of one of my parents and a whole bunch of other life stuff things, but I am (finally) starting to make some real and tangible progress.
I am going to consult here on some of the changes that I’m going to be making (the original idea was to use a group of players as a review panel, but that really never seemed to work), so I will be very interested in people’s input.
As always, I appreciate the support that I get from you guys, not least of all your patience.
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Just following on from what I wote above …
I just saw this on the rather excellent The Like and Get Likes Thread IV. Pretty much sums up what I am trying to do with the chart … LOL
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Good to hear you’re still working on it…
Course life issues always takes precedence…
Anyway, definitely looking forward to seeing it finished…
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Your attention to detail and dedication to accessibility is admirable. I read this entire thread as background. I’ll preface my post with saying that I am not a professional designer, just someone who has dabbled in some principles of accessibility, and I try to make things I publish for my work at least follow guidelines to be basically accessible.
As you already know, roughly 8% or 1 out of every 12 XX-chromosome males and 0.5% or 1 out of every 200 XY-chromosome females is born with some form of Color Vision Deficiency - CVD for short, typically red-green. I will focus on males here given the much higher rate. So it’s extremely common for a medical condition, and given that rates are highest for males globally and for Northern Europeans and their colonies especially. (See CVD Prevalence from VisionCenter dot org.) EVE online almost certainly has a disproportionately high percentage of people with CVD. Not to say EVE has no female players or people from other places, but it was started by a company in Iceland and is English-first to account for geographic distribution; and there’s the well known assumption that all capsuleers are male IRL (though I know this is obviously false given my first mentor is a woman I knew IRL). So, it’s a major fail in design that more things aren’t designed with this in mind for the EVE community.
(On a personal level, I’ve been aware of CVD from an early age since my half-brother has red-green deficiency. I know he would appreciate the effort put in! Especially the care taken to be consistent with the direction of the Red, Yellow, Green chevrons.)
PDFs are perfectly cross-platform. I use Linux and a PDF reader called Okular. It takes a few seconds to sharpen when changing zoom levels, but it is perfectly legible at far more than 100% zoom. Everyone suggesting that the chart primarily or only be available as an image file such as a png or jp(e)g is forgetting artifacts. Also, most PDF readers have built-in tools to change the color, size, and rotation or even a full accessibility suite. Along with the ability to extract embedded text. I’m personally not a fan of Adobe given their practices, but I understand that for someone who is a professional designer, many FOSS tools just won’t do the job without a complete overhaul in process at minimum and typically don’t include DRM tools for obvious reasons. So I’m not going to get hung up over it being a PDF and there are literally tens of tools available entirely for free and libre.
BTW speaking of DRM, would you consider allowing annotation on locally saved copies of the PDF, @Mu_ad_Diib ? I sympathize with protecting your content from edits, but if you have granularity on the DRM, that would be appreciated.
Now for some specifics that could be corrected
- Legend typo “Each career card on the chart shoulder chevrons.” is missing a verb. I suggest, “Each career card on the chart has shoulder chevrons”.
- IMPORTANT - Copyright Info section is has some not filled-in placeholder text. “Insert your name or site name"
- There are a few different Version History dates and they’re not consistent. I was trying to find out the actual last time everything was updated and it’s conflicting within the chart itself, as well as your posts in this thread which are more recent than any in the chart. 3 images combined into one for this one:
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@Sato_Yamakima Thank you for posting this. It’s a genuinely helpful bit of feedback and I really appreciate the time and effort you’ve clearly taken in writing a thoughtful and intelligent comment.
Thanks so much for the compliment and for taking the time to read through the entire thread. It’s been a long project, but I’m fully committed to it and to making it the thing of beauty it deserves to be.
As for your being a non-designer, that’s absolutely fine. Good design should work in such a way that people without a design background can look at it and say, “That really works.” They may not necessarily understand the underlying design logic and structure that lead to that reaction, but they’ll instinctively know that “it just works.”
On this basis, your feedback is every bit as valid and appreciated as anyone else’s.
Your comment is really helpful, especially the reference to the Statistics on the Prevalence of Colour Blindness page on the VisionCenter dot org website. I was familiar with much of this already (accessibility is one of my personal specialisms as a graphic designer), but it’s a valuable read for anyone working in graphics or design who wants to consider accessibility.
As you’ve recognised, the use of colour and the way it’s used on the chart is particularly important to me.
This time around, I’m exploring the idea of including a high-contrast monochrome version, aimed at people with visual disabilities who may find it easier to read and use. It’s not rocket science – it just needs a little more work (hence part of the reason for the delay in releasing v3).
If it’s of interest, one of the most useful tools I use when working in colour is a free app called Sim Daltonism. It’s available for Mac and iOS only, but if you want it you can download it here: Download iOS version | Download Mac desktop version
Lastly, the lived experience of disabled people is always important to consider when designing anything. As a disabled designer, my own experience definitely informs my approach – and, as you said, having a brother with red–green deficiency helps you see things differently from non-disabled people who don’t have that personal or family connection.
Thanks for this comment. Artifacts and overall accessibility are exactly why I’d be hesitant to offer the finished chart solely as a JPG. For me, good design is always going to be about giving end users the choice to select the format that works best for them, rather than me dictating how they access it.
You make a good point here, and for the record, I’m not a fan of their practices either. Sadly, however, if you’re a professional designer, working in design and publishing, use of their products is virtually essential.
An entirely valid and sound point, and a great idea too, and yes, I will make sure (somehow) that’s available at least one version of the chart next time around.
Lastly, regarding the typos, there were quite a few in the last release – although, in my defence, v2 of the chart was very much a trial/assessment version rather than the finished chart. I’ll make sure to have it thoroughly proofread and accuracy checked by one or more people, though, before the full release.
Thanks again for the brilliant feedback.
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I’m starting to make a bit of progress (or at least it feels that way!), despite life throwing everything at me – from the loss of a parent to my partner continuing to be really unwell. Ho hum. Onwards and upwards, right? < takes deep breath >
I’ve now developed most of the required slimmed-down graphics for the revised chart, which should hopefully result in a smaller file.
Essentially, there are 28 card-size variants (for generic, Alpha, and Omega activities), which will eventually become 56 variants once I’ve finished producing the high-contrast cards (see below).
I’m currently refining the card look and feel, as well as the typography, and I’d really welcome some user feedback – hence this post.
In the Beta version of the chart (released in 2023), I used a very light grey tint for the text on each activity card. I did carry out extensive testing of this colour beforehand, particularly around contrast and readability – using the brilliant SimDaltonism tool (if you’d like a PC equivalent of this, try the Color Oracle which is also free). Ultimately, the final colour choice was made to give the chart a fresh, slightly revised look. However, a few people did raise concerns about contrast.
With this in mind, I’ve produced a few options that I’d like to run past you all, and I’d really appreciate any constructive feedback.
Below are three colour variants of the activity cards. The first shows the current card colour arrangement. The second uses a revised text colour for improved contrast. The third is the ‘nuclear option’, white text.
Have a look at these, and then please vote in the poll for the option you prefer. Thanks!
(For what it’s worth, my personal favourite is option 2)
Colour Card Poll
- Card 1: 20% Black
- Card 2: 20% Cool Black Text
- Card 3: White Text
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voters
Below is a screenshot of the SimDaltonism window applied to the cards above (I’ve left one clear for comparison), simulating the most common red–green colour blindness – Deuteranomaly – to give you an idea of how the cards might appear to someone with the condition.
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Whilst Deuteranomaly is the most common form of colour blindness, there are in fact five other types. Three are red–green conditions (Deuteranopia, Protanopia and Protanomaly), and two are yellow–blue conditions (Tritanopia and Tritanomaly). In addition, some people have partial monochromacy, meaning they see a generally reduced level of colour.
SimDaltonism allows you to check for all of these conditions and, for what it’s worth, I have tested the cards against every simulation, and they all ‘work’.
However, because contrast on the complexity and cost chevrons (upper left-hand and upper right-hand corners of the cards, respectively) is diminished for some of these conditions – and because contrast was raised as an issue last time – I’m planning to offer a high-contrast version of the chart in the next release.
On this basis, below are three variants for a high-contrast chart. The first is high contrast with some retained colour. The second is a greyscale option (no colour at all). The third is a very simple mono-only version (I’ve used part-filled chevrons to give an indication of how this might look).
Have a look at these, and then please vote in the poll for the option you prefer. Thanks!
(For what it’s worth, my personal favourite is option 2)
High Contrast Card Poll
- Card 1: High contrast, with retained colour
- Card 2: High contrast, Greyscale
- Card 3: High contrast, Mono
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voters
Thanks again for your continuing support with the project and for tyour help, in advance, with the feedback that I am seeking here.
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Good to see you’re still active with it, hopefully life issues will quickly work out to let you finish what you started… 
Anyway, I answered your polls but I’ll also post my opinion on the 2 groups…
I like the first group, specifically the White Text Card 3 but prefer the Chevron color of Card 1…
For the second group, I’d prefer the High Contrast Card 4a..
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Can’t wait for this to be finished - I also prefer 4A.
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i would like to suggest two additional pieces of information that i think would be useful for each card. first some sort of indication of how much sp is required for an activity, so that new players can easily see that something like incursions could be a great thing to work towards eventually, but you’re not going to start out there. secondly an indicator of how profitable each activity is, for instance small gang pvp is not something anyone expects to earn isk with, compared to l4 missions where almost everyone thinks about the isk/hour. perhaps they could be similar indicators for “difficulty” and “isk required” indicators but on the bottom of each card.
Actually he just needs to finish it, the entire graph already has plenty of info, no need to complicate it further…
Also the things you’re asking about can’t have any specific time or Isk amount placed on them due to various other aspects affecting them…
Skill training time is different for each character due to their account status, Attributes, use of Cerebral Accelerators and amount of unallocated SP’s injected..
Same goes for Isk amount, too many variables affect it along with RNG aspect…
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there’s certainly a solid argument for finishing what they’re working on and making it available before attempting to add more info to the chart. i don’t know where in the process they are so i can’t really speak to how the workflow would best be organized and/or optimized.
on the other hand your point that the data i’m asking for lack specific values so it can’t be meaningful doesn’t really stand up to scrutiny. the chart already has “difficulty” and “isk required” as central aspects of the cards and manages to make those work. obviously because of the variable nature of eve, those aspects are just as varied and unspecific, but are also, in some ways, the most useful parts of the charts, especially for new players that are trying to climb the cliffs of the learning curve that is eve.
for profitability you can broadly put activities into three categories: expenditures that hopefully break even, mild profits that you can use to pay for expenditures, and activities that people frequently use to plex their accounts. for SP you can do the same: activities you can start right after you finish your career missions without thinking much about skill plans, activities you can get into with less than ten million sp with a reasonable skill plan, and activities that require quite a few maxed out specialized skills that will take dedication and time or lots of money to start.
sure, there will always be a few activities that don’t fit neatly into these categories but the vast majority of activities can easily be categorized by any knowledgeable eve player that participates in the activity. further, these factors are crucial to understanding where an activity fits into the larger ecosystem of eve, and how to find activities that will allow people to continue to play eve in a sustainable way.
Your work has been briefly seen at this year’s Fanfest opening video Twitch
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Wow. I never saw that. Thanks for posting. I seriously need to get the better version done though … the magenta (needs to be sorted) bit is really annoying!