Rework of Faction Resists without new mechanics

EVE Technology and Research Center Player Features & Ideas
1

Rework of Faction Resists

At the moment, most of the factional resists modules are not used by players and have no value.

Which modules are we talking about?

Multispectrum/EM/Thermal/Kinetic/Explosive Energized Membrane versions:
Federation Navy, Shadow Serpentis

Multispectrum/EM/Thermal/Kinetic/Explosive Coating versions:
Federation Navy, Domination, Republic Fleet, Shadow Serpentis

EM/Thermal/Kinetic/Explosive Armor Hardener versions:
Federation Navy, Domination, Republic Fleet, Shadow Serpentis

EM/Thermal/Kinetic/Explosive Shield Amplifier versions:
Domination, Republic Fleet

EM/Thermal/Kinetic/Explosive Shield Hardener versions:
Domination

Whatā€™s the problem?

When fitting ships, players try to achieve maximum equal resistances due to the minimum number of modules used. Therefore, modules with the maximum percentage of resists for their money are always used. This is also due to the stacking penalty.

For this reason, anything with a low percentage of resists at the same meta-level is not in demand.

This also includes the problem of duplicating modules.

For example, the Multispectrum Energized Membrane versions of True Sansha, Imperial Navy, Dark Blood, Ammatar Navy and Khanid Navy have no differences at all.

Proposal for change

In order for the modules to be used more often, it makes sense to give them unique bonuses.

Therefore, factional versions of modules should have factional resists. By factional resists, I mean that sign that everyone has seen in this game indicating the type of NPC, type of tanking and type of damage.

And it would be advisable to introduce additional factional modules to increase the resistance options. For example, add Multispectrum Energized Membrane versions of Domination/Republic Fleet/Caldari Navy/Dread Guristas

What would it look like for Tech I, Tech II and Faction Multispectrum Energized Membrane:
Version EM Thermal Kinetic Explosive
Basic 12,6 12,6 12,6 12,6
Tech I 13,5 13,5 13,5 13,5
Compact 15,2 15,2 15,2 15,2
Tech II 18 18 18 18
Pilfer 18 18 18 18
Imperial Navy 23,4 21,4 20,2 20,2
Khanid Navy 23,4 20,2 21,4 20,2
Ammatar Navy 23,4 20,2 20,2 21,4
True Sansha 22,4 22,4 20,2 20,2
Dark Blood 22,4 20,2 22,4 20,2
Federation Navy 20,2 23,4 21,4 20,2
Shadow Serpentis 20,2 22,4 22,4 20,2
Republic Fleet 20,2 20,2 21,4 23,4
Domination 20,2 20,2 22,4 22,4
Caldari Navy 20,2 21,4 23,4 20,2
Dread Guristas 20,2 22,4 22,4 20,2
What would it look like for Tech I, Tech II and Faction EM Energized Membrane:
Version EM Thermal Kinetic Explosive
Basic 29,2
Tech I 31,2
Compact 32,6
Tech II 34,9
Pickpocket 31,1
Imperial Navy 36,8 10
Khanid Navy 37,8 5
Ammatar Navy 37,8 5
True Sansha 37,8 5
Dark Blood 37,8 5
Federation Navy 36,8 10
Shadow Serpentis 36,8 5 5
Republic Fleet 36,8 10
Domination 36,8 5 5
Caldari Navy 36,8 10
Dread Guristas 36,8 5 5
What would it look like for Tech I, Tech II and Faction Thermal Energized Membrane:
Version EM Thermal Kinetic Explosive
Basic 29,2
Tech I 31,2
Compact 32,6
Tech II 34,9
Pickpocket 31,1
Imperial Navy 10 36,8
Khanid Navy 5 36,8 5
Ammatar Navy 5 36,8 5
True Sansha 5 37,8
Dark Blood 5 36,8 5
Federation Navy 36,8 10
Shadow Serpentis 37,8 5
Republic Fleet 36,8 10
Domination 36,8 5 5
Caldari Navy 36,8 10
Dread Guristas 37,8 5
What would it look like for Tech I, Tech II and Faction Kinetic Energized Membrane:
Version EM Thermal Kinetic Explosive
Basic 29,2
Tech I 31,2
Compact 32,6
Tech II 34,9
Mafia 31,1
Imperial Navy 10 36,8
Khanid Navy 5 37,8
Ammatar Navy 5 36,8 5
True Sansha 5 5 36,8
Dark Blood 5 37,8
Federation Navy 10 36,8
Shadow Serpentis 5 37,8
Republic Fleet 36,8 10
Domination 37,8 5
Caldari Navy 10 36,8
Dread Guristas 5 37,8
What would it look like for Tech I, Tech II and Faction Explosive Energized Membrane:
Version EM Thermal Kinetic Explosive
Basic 29,2
Tech I 31,2
Compact 32,6
Tech II 34,9
Bribe 31,1
Imperial Navy 10 36,8
Khanid Navy 5 5 36,8
Ammatar Navy 5 37,8
True Sansha 5 5 36,8
Dark Blood 5 5 36,8
Federation Navy 10 36,8
Shadow Serpentis 5 5 36,8
Republic Fleet 10 36,8
Domination 5 37,8
Caldari Navy 10 36,8
Dread Guristas 5 5 36,8

Why is there a 5 or 10% bonus to the profile resists, because the amount of resists from such a module will be significantly higher than it is now? These percentages will play an insignificant role due to the stacking penalty rule, according to which the lowest indicator receives the largest penalty.

How can this solve the problem?

This proposal, for the most part, concerns the fitting of Tech II ships. Due to the differences in the base resists of Tech II ships, these changes should encourage the use of different meta 8 level modules.

For example, currently, Ikitursa (ALL SKILLS LVL 5) with two Dark Blood Multispectrum Energized Membrane and Medium Kinetic Armor Reinforcer II has resists:
EM ā€“ 70,9, Thermal ā€“ 85,4, Kinetic ā€“ 67,5, Explosive ā€“ 79,6.

After the implementation of the proposed changes, it will be possible to assemble the features Ikitursa:

Fitting EM Thermal Kinetic Explosive
1 x Imperial Navy Kinetic Energized Membrane 1 x Khanid Navy Multispectrum Energized Membrane 1 x Medium Kinetic Armor Reinforcer II 68,46 81,32 76,12 73,85
2 x Imperial Navy Kinetic Energized Membrane 1 x Medium EM Armor Reinforcer II 73,09 75 75,68 65
2 x Domination Multispectrum Energized Membrane 1 x Medium Kinetic Armor Reinforcer II 70,86 85,43 69 80,93
1 x Domination Multispectrum Energized Membrane 1 x Dark Blood Multispectrum Energized Membrane 1 x Medium Kinetic Armor Reinforcer II 71,91 85,43 69 80,34

Profit

As can be seen from the examples, the omnitank does not work, but in three out of four cases at least one resist remains less than 70%. Consequently, the fittings and the resists will be more unpredictable, and the assemblies can vary depending on the prices of factional modules, which will subsequently increase the demand for currently unpopular modules.

Naturally, the above figures are nothing more than suggestions, however, these changes can be introduced in relation to modules of the Energized Armor Resistance Membrane, Armor Resistance Coating, Armor Harder, Shield Resistance Amplifier, Shield Hardener groups.

Naturally, the changes can be extended to both the plex and officer versions of the modules.

2 Likes
2

I like this idea!

It would bring a bit more variation to faction modules and make some or others more popular depending on the situation (NPC rat types, abyssal flavour or PvP fleet meta).

This variation only works for multispectrum resistances thoughā€¦ there also are single-resist faction hardeners. Would this theme also apply to those, and how?

2 Likes
3

Of course, I just didnā€™t write out the tables for active hardeners.
I would like this update to apply to all faction modules for resists, with the exception of Reactive harder, Damage control and Rigs.

4

What would be the redeeming factors for a single-resist module of a faction that is ā€˜badā€™ in that type?

Or would such modules just be bad and go un-used?

For multispectrum faction profiles I can see it work as they will have both strengths and weaknesses, but the weak resists of some factions make single-resist modules of those types just bad.

1 Like
5

Donā€™t like the idea of making the game even more complex than it already is.

If it was up to me, they should instead remove the duplicate items and split the remaining items among the factions equally. The game would be better off with like 75% less faction modules, their sheer Numbers and stats that are way too similar to make any difference and add no real value to the game, making it unnessessary complex and confusing, especially for newer players.

3 Likes
6

Look tables under the spoilers. There are bonuses for single-resist modules

7

I understand that EVE is not an easy game right now, and these changes will make the fitting even more difficult.
However, the changes relate to factional modules, which are not intended for beginners anyway.
And for experienced players, this will be an additional option.

8

Since I am the one spending hours over hours in fitting discussions within my corp and alliance already, let me tell you that the game would benefit from an easier fitting system that more people would be willing to learn.

Also overcomplexity isnā€™t only a mess for people learning the game (and you are wrong, faction items are especially useful for newer players that not yet have the skills for T2 modules), but also a deterrent for people to start diving into a game at all if that mindset mof making things overcomplex is like a red line through the whole game.

4 Likes
9

Iā€™ve always been confused by the fact that the game has the same modules with different names.

1 Like
10

I am well aware that lowering the entry threshold to the game can attract new players.
However, Iā€™ve come to love EVE for her complexity, so I donā€™t see anything wrong with that.
The policy of ā€œcomplicatingā€ or ā€œsimplifyingā€ is still the prerogative of the developer, and he decides to use my idea, or on the contrary, he will simplify

11

Great idea! Do we need to look at Faction armor modules as well?

1 Like
12

Not only armor, shield too. Armor its only example.

13

while I understand the concept, this is adding a huge amount of additional complexity for very modest actual benefit.
i think there will also be certain combinations of resists that will be far more popular than others, leading to price spikes and supply issues.
we went through a process known as tiericide a while ago to remove a lot of similar meta modules to reduce complexity.
this would just add all that complexity back in, with interest.
no thanks.

2 Likes
14

The idea itself (reworking the Faction Modules) is great. Because you have a point: most of them are redundant and many of them even not very useful.

The big ā€œbutā€ is this:

Exactly what he said.

It makes little sense for the devs to put so much effort in reworking the Meta Modules to simplify everything and then going the exact opposite way by creating like dozens to hundreds of different Faction Modules that all have to be in a somewhat good balance. Because players will pretty quickly find out what the ā€œbestā€ combination is and then again those will be highly expensive and the whole rest will be rather unused. So 90% of the effort would be even in vain.

IF the faction modules are reworked (and deadspace with them, would make sense), it would be good if they simply follow the path they have gone with the Meta Modules: A simple tiericide that makes it obvious which one to chose for a certain scenario.

For exaple (not nessessary the best way, but one way):

  • Navy = high performance (better than T2), but similar high fitting and Skill requirements to T2
  • Pirate = high efficiency (performance equal to T2, but less penalties, less cap-use, less fitting and skill requirements than T2)

This way, you have a really simple choice:

  • If you want max performance and it CAN FIT, and you can live with the requirements/drawbcks (cap-use, signature, mass penalties etcā€¦): use Navy Modules.
  • If you want to get fits done that require some flexibility because something (CPU/PG/Capacitor/Signature, Speed etcā€¦) DONā€™T FIT - use Pirate Modules.

And whoosh, we suddenly only need ONE ā€œNavy Heat Sinkā€, ONE ā€œOutlaw Heat Sinkā€, ONE ā€œNavy Medium Armor Repairerā€, which can be sold (or the Blueprints) either by all of the Navies (or dropped by all of the Outlaws), or they make it lore-based and benefitial to specialize, so all the Armor-Moduleā€™s go into the Amarr (and associated groups) LP stores. The shield ones to Caldari & Co, the Propmods to Minmatar, the Tacklemods to Gallente etc. pp.. This would even enforce trade and/or even player-activity exchange between the empires, because as prices rise and fall for those modules, players would have a motivation to change their PvE location.

This would be a true benefit to the game, because itā€™s easy to understand for everyone, fitting would become a lot easier and players had opportunities to specialize trade by running missions/FW for a certain empire that has the type of faction modules in store they like to trade or aquire.

1 Like
15

I do like the small existing differences between faction modules though, where Amarr armor multispectrum energized membranes have stronger bonuses but the Gallente version is easier to fit.

Or where Gallente faction afterburners are easier on the powergrid while Minmatar afterburners save some more CPU for the same bonuses. Where Caldari shield extenders take more CPU while Minmatar extenders save on powergrid and sig radius and where Amarr armor plates are bulky and have a lot of HP and Gallente plates are easier to fit and have lower penalties.

All of those things already exist in the game and I often make use of them while fitting ships.

Many faction versions are just boring copies of each other though, and I think it would be nice if they could all have their own strengths and weaknesses similar to the meta tiericide but with the strengths and weaknesses of factions in mind.

Simplicity is good, but varied options also adds a lot of game mechanics and flavour to the game.

And while I agree that keeping the game simple for newer players is a nice goal, newer players are more likely to interact with meta modules long before they bling their ships with faction modules, so I donā€™t see why we cannot have both simplicity of straightforward meta modules and some flavour and variation in faction modules.

2 Likes
16

Exactly that would achieved with my suggestion.

1 Like
17

I understand your argument and posit a refutation. Why not then price them the same if they are equal? This just looks like a player failure rather than a game design issue.

18

They are priced about the same due to market demand, but itā€™s boring to have multiple items with different names that are essentially the same.

1 Like
19

Tiericide was a huge change to the modules, however, it changed the overall approach, and for individual groups there were still problems with duplication of modules and the presence of useless modules.
Iā€™m not saying that new modules need to be added. Iā€™m talking about a certain highlight for fractional modules.

Yes, thatā€™s a good one too.
There is one ā€œButā€, and it consists in a huge number of ways to free up the CPU and Powergrid.
Mutaplasmids; meta 1-4 modules; rigs; implants; for armor, this is the replacement of membranes with coatings etc.
The use of factional modules is only one of the tools, and for most fits it is not in the first place.

Iā€™m not saying that my opinion is the only correct one, of course there are two ways:

  • either remove the duplicates, leave the Navy (best parameters, highest penalties) and Pirate (good parameters, low penalties) versions
  • or leave a set of fractional modules for different factions with individual highlights.

100% agree

20

Not before the T2 MWD modules are reworked. Which actually means never. :slight_smile:

2 Likes