I’m always happy when salt is deposited on the forums
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Except you are just doing the usual eve is dead and dying that has been going on since I started playing in 2012. If what you are doing is considered “valuable discussion” then i want no part in it that to again ask if I can have your stuff.
Go make your own fun. There are plenty of ways to do so. I will not disagree that the game seems to be in a stale slump in terms of Nullsec sov surrounding timers and Lowsec in general (don’t know enough about what plagues lowsec, but it’s complained about a lot). I would say that eve is more or less the same that it’s always been.
Can you think of how previous huge battles have taken place? Jumping a Titan instead of bridging… not paying the sov bill or a bug causing sov to go unpaid and not dropping… besides WWB it’s really just players making their own content through things that happen. Eve is fine, but please continue giving us entertainment and salt. Holeysheet1 and his alt have been missing from the forums for a while now and he needs someone to champion for him while he’s away.
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Sorry, but nope. Look back at the list. You’re conflating rookie systems with starter systems. Many of these are just regular systems that most players have no idea are involved in the arc.
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To answer the OP, I live in Arnon so I keep an eye on this policy. I’m actually personally responsible for Arnon and other Arc systems being included in that list. Not long ago it wasn’t. Hehehe…
But anyway, the Monday change doesn’t seem to have been anything major. Probably just a grammar adjustment or something.
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Agreed. Not sure why CCP doesn’t make it clearer or just designate it in some way, but this is helpful!
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Yeah sure, ask for EvE to be spoonfed and watered down easy mode even more
Great
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Seriously ?
You check that list from time to time to see if you can pwn noobs in Starter Systems once again ?
People like you is the reason CCP created the Rookie Griefing rule in the first place. They’re definitely not going to remove that rule and if Rookie Griefing in other systems becomes more apparent to CCP, those systems will also be added to the list as well.
DMC
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Those rookie protection policies always seemed a little flaky to me and still do.
A little while ago, I encountered the following situation:
A war was declared on a little highsec industrial corp, and being friends with them, my corp was asked for help. We joined the war, and went out to find and shoot down members of the aggressing corporation. The only ones we were able to find were a few days old newbies (because from all the intel we could gather, that was what the corp consisted of, except for the CEO, who never bothered to log in for the duration of the war that he had declared himself). We decided to go shoot down a handful anyway, and then leave it be, as they could not really do any harm. So we encountered this rookie in a thrasher on the move. We followed him around a bit for a few systems until we finally caught up to him. He was at that point docked in a station. We waited, and sure enough, after a few minutes he undocked and we murdered him, just to be told afterwards that this was in fact a newbie system.
We then talked a bit to the guy, and found out he really knew nothing and seemed to be a legit newbie, not an alt. He didn’t know he could redock, he didn’t notice he was being trailed, he didn’t even know he could see war enemies in local. Actually, I do not think he really understood what this whole war thing was about and he told us he would probably leave this corp now that he knew that a war is serious business.
So as far as we are concerned, all we did was find a war target, trail it and shoot it down. Only that the system where the kill happened turned out to be a newbie system. And yes, we did effectively take advantage of the fact that the guy didn’t have the slightest clue.
From a moral standpoint, I think the main culprit is the CEO here, who invited a bunch of clueless rookies and then dumped them into a war without explaining jack ■■■■. To us, the rookie was the aggressor, even though he probably didn’t realize it.
But this is Eve, and morals don’t matter. Rules do. So, did we violate the rules, or did we not? And if we have violated the rules, how could we have known? We had not set up camp in that specific system, we were not using the auto navigation or the map. Are we supposed to memorize all Newbie systems after all or check everytime before we open fire on a war target? At least make it say “rookie system” next to the name of the system in the interface, for crying out loud!
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Is this why you start attacking CCP staff?
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Yeah, some corp gets wardecced, you check the zKillboard (or are you a newbro too?) see they are completely harmless. Yet you decide to go on the offensive and follow and shoot down someone in a minmatar destroyer without checking his experience (‘right click playername’, select ‘show info’ then click the employment tab and see the start date -are you still sure you aren’t a newbro?-). I just think your story is full of holes. A-ones that is. But yes, blame someone else to give yourself the moral highground. You could just have said “With the amount of mindless F1-ing random wardecced targets we are indifferent on who we attack because ‘sandbox’.” there, no need to lie. It’s just another line on your zKillboard and noobs can be grinded faster per hour.
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Obviously you guys must have researched the Corp first before accepting allied status. The fact that it was a Corp full of newbies should have made you question the validity of even becoming involved with that Wdec.
Hell, you guys probably knew going in that those Rookie kill’s would be justified since they’re in a Player Corp that’s involved in a legal Wdec.
Anyway, that scenario you posted is perfectly legal in CCP’s eyes, thus it’s a ‘No harm, no foul’ loophole to the Rookie Griefing Policy.
DMC
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There was nothing on zkillboard on most characters in that corp - no surprise there, as they were new characters. However, despite not having any kills to their name, they were the ones declaring war. And that means, they willingly threatened to attack a bunch of highsec miners, and we were called in to defend them. I probably do not have to tell you that just because those characters are new does not mean they cannot do any damage, or are you new too?
It’s perfectly possible to kill an undefended mining barge on your first day. Heck, Thrashers are capable of killing some mining barges in highsec even with CONCORD intervention, let alone without.
We went out to hunt them, and we ended up only killing two before we concluded that they really were not even intending to go to war. Considering the CEO was the only older character in the corp, this could well have just been a vanity project by a bored veteran who created a bunch of alts to kill a few miners in highsec - would you have been able to tell? We talked to both guys we shot down, just to learn they really didn’t know what anyone in their corp was doing, so we stopped pursuing them and just monitored the CEO for the rest of the war. We also explained to them why they had been shot down and why we were even able to do this without CONCORD intervention.
Since you seem to think that we should have gone about this differently, can you tell me how? Should we the next time a war is declared on us or one of our friends contact all the young characters in the aggressors corp and tell them “hey, we are out hunting for you right now, please let us know if you ok with being shot”?
Like I said, morally I don’t see a problem there - they declared war, and we shot them down. Just the rules aren’t clear.
We ran a few checks of course, but there wasn’t much to be learned at that point. The corp was new, and most of the rookies just joined while the war was already live. When we joined in, there were only 4 members or so (we were 3 active players at the time). It topped out a couple of days later at 12 members or so, 11 of which were new characters.
The mere fact that we shot down two legit rookies certainly doesn’t give us any stomach aches. They were the attackers after all. The only thing that made me think were the rules. I can freely shoot whoever I want in Malkalen for example, but if I follow someone through the gate to Amsen next door, all of a sudden I am “advised to reconsider any aggressive action” against them.
In this case, there was indeed no harm done. We talked to the guys for quite some time, and they hold no grudge. But what if they did, and let’s say reported the incident to CCP? My guess would be nothing, but CCP has been known to be a bit fickle when it comes to enforcing their rules.
And there’s still the question of what we are expected to do? Memorize the list of rookie systems? Or should we just not ever shoot a new character? And what’s new exactly? 2 days? 2 weeks? 2 months?
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Like I said earlier:
Even though the Rookie Griefing Policy states that a new player is someone who has 30 days or lower time within the game, back when that policy was being put into affect CCP actually posted in a thread that a new player can’t really be defined in game due to various reasons. Only CCP knows for sure if it’s actually a new player or an alt character of an experienced player.
The main reason those systems were listed was due to a high amount of Rookie Griefing happening there, as well as letting experienced players know to exercise caution and not mess with Rookies when in those systems. Incidents involving Rookie Pilots will be reviewed and judged case by case. If it becomes apparent to CCP that a large amount of Rookies are being Griefed in systems not on the list, CCP can and probably will add those systems to the list as well.
A new player actually becomes a legal target when they initiate a duel, gains a suspect / criminal flag, joins Factional Warfare, joins a player corp involved in a WarDec or travels into Low, Null and W-space systems.
Anyway, I’m sure you already know this stuff. Hell, your character is a few months older than mine.
DMC
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It’s actually simple: you violated the letter of the law, not the spirit of it. In newbie griefing cases, most likely the newbie creates the petition, and it’s unlikely that this newbie would create such a petition, given that his experience was positive (at the very least, he learned something).
The newbie griefing policy isn’t an automated law, like traffic cameras giving speeding tickets. It’s manually enforced by CCP; they may have flags popping up on newbie deaths in newbie systems, but they do manually check. So you’re fine.
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Lol he did NOT violate the rule at all!
Rule says wardecs are valid gameplay mechanics.
There are troves of offical CCP responses in the past decade on how you can wardec a 5 day old corp full of 5 day olds and blow them up nonstop for weeks.
They join a corp, they sign up to get wardecced. End of story.
How have you been here this long and blatantly avoided ever seeing this pointed out by CCP? You are clearly lieing or just fainting ignorance to troll.
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Because, believe it or not, although I try to MEMORIZE every single detail that spews forth from CCP or CSM, sometimes I forget. And other times I take year-long breaks, from the boards too.
So, not lying, nor feigning ignorance, it’s actual ignorance. You shouldn’t attack people in your posts.
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Oh, won’t someone please think of the newbies!!!1 lololololol
DMC, you’re such a bleeding heart for noob carebears…
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The whole rookie griefing policy always reminded me of this:
There should at least be an easily spottable visual indicator ingame that lets you know that you are in such a system. Especially as the list of affected systems can change over time.
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Informing the players of the rules of their game is simply not a high priority for CCP. I’d imagine when it’s brought up, certain carebear devs dismiss the concern as ‘only affecting gankers and griefers’ whom they don’t care about, because like so many in this thread, they are fundamentally butthurt about us.
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As a long time player, you should be used by now to the fact that a ■■■■ load of relevant info has to be gathered outside the game. Going into tinfoil accusation of dev not showing this one because of carebear tears is stupid. Everyone has to deal with CCP complete lack of intelligence in displaying relevant info in all part of the game.