I assure you we were not “unhindered” in Skarkon. Evacuations have been successful because the triangles who tried to stop them are dead.
I explicitly stated that I was not referring to the evacuations lead by capsuleers.
From the most recent article which covers the fall of Skarkon:
Integrity, ma’am, is standing by your brothers in arms when you are needed most and facing their most dangerous enemy. Integrity is respecting the democratically chosen course of action for our organization rather than ordering a tactical retreat before the results of the Round Table Assembly were even tabulated. Integrity is not distancing yourself from your former allies and throwing them to the wolves once it becomes inconvenient for your ambitions just to cover your own ass and hope you get spared the violence done to us from our enemies.
The Bosena Accords is a free association organization and former-Warden Fury was free to leave if we was uncomfortable with our course of action. But announcing it when he did, how he did, without discussing it with us beforehand was a questionable move that only gave our enemies more ammunition and left us weakened at a critical moment when we can’t afford to lose.
If you want to talk about “actions” over words, I’ve multiple times mentioned the actions we took to prevent the fall of Skarkon. You have no leg to stand on if you’re attempting to claim that we didn’t take multiple actions to prevent this.
At this point, if the Collective truly is as uncaring of those absorbed into their sphere as many here claim they are it will be a net positive over the number of our adversaries that would see us lynched and exterminated.
You know what? If I’m in a group, and that group holds a vote on ‘should we rape children?’ and I can see that vote is going decidedly toward ‘yes’… no, I don’t think ‘integrity’ requires me to hang around until everyone else counts up the votes. And I don’t believe ‘integrity’ requires me to not say something like ‘this is some ■■■■■■ up ■■■■, what the HELL is wrong with you?’ and advertising that I’m leaving. Nor do I have to ‘discuss it beforehand’.
So, sorry, you wanna start working in overly-broad statements about ‘integrity’… maybe you should learn what it is, first.
Oh wow. You’re really having a normal one huh?
That is a… Remarkably tone deaf and ill-advised straw man argument.
I tend to find ‘the most heinous acts imaginable’ on-par with ‘the most heinous acts imaginable’.
What word/concept would you use for those who stay then, since integrity does not appear to be it?
I would ask you this. They offered truce with the groups already trying to kill them on the ground, not just kill, but permanently erase them in some cases with Red Troop involved now, to unite against Triglavian forces that were landing. Those forces refused and continue to assault them. What else would you have had them do? Die quietly so you don’t have to pay attention? They made a choice on whether or not to engage triglavian forces ontop of already fighting three separate forces, the UTFS, AEGIS, and Red Troop. They didn’t help the triglavians take the Skarkon system, they’ve more than once tried to prevent it. But now things are in the ■■■■, they were and are still in a precarious position, and instead of adding another group to the list trying to wipe them out, they made a non-aggression pact, and are not actively engaging triglavian ground forces, nor are they assisting them. My own forces in Skarkon are not engaging triglavians either while they continue to help with evacuations, all the while, the UTFS is throwing around tactical nukes trying to stop us from getting civilians clear. Who’s really the terrible ones in this situation?
If you, disputing the claims of almost every party to the Skarkon II conflict are being forthright, your path is the only path, you are the one-eyed man in the land of the blind.
If as seems far more likely; the prevailing wisdom about your ‘Bosena Accords’ is true, it would make you criminals and illegal slavers, now in league with purveyors of genocide on a scale that is difficult to imagine.
As someone raised to view loyalty and duty as the pillars on which civilisation rests, it is with consternation that I look to your pollution of it. You failed in your mission, you failed those who followed you; to now, after forsaking your own loyalty, such as it may have been to humanity itself, castigate your former comrade for disloyalty– in the work of a satirist this sequence of events could justly be considered sublime.
Considering your artlessness, I will summarise for you. He who forsakes his own loyalty is entitled to none, it is the integrity of those who remained at your side that I would call into question.
You know, you used to be better at twisting peoples’ words around. My statement of ‘integrity doesn’t require me to hang around’ doesn’t mean I’m accusing the people who do of not having any. If I say ‘claiming group A does not have Quality 1 is false’, that doesn’t mean Group B doesn’t have Quality 1. In fact, it says nothing at all about Group B. So you can just ram your head right back up your arse and keep sniffing your own farts, 'k?
Frankly, I don’t care what they do. But when their choice of action is ‘stop opposing the group that’s an active threat to humanity all over the cluster’, if some of their members say ‘you know what? I’m out’, then accusing those people of not having integrity is a crock of ■■■■.
If someone had said after Niarja ‘I can’t be part of this group anymore’ and left Delve, while we’re surrounded with massive forces looking to permanently exterminate us? Yeah, that’d suck for those of us who are still here, but I’m not going to accuse them of not having integrity. I’m not going to pointing my finger at them and telling them ‘YOU ARE HORRIBLE PEOPLE’ for making that decision1.
Also: ‘not just kill, but permanently erase’. Wow. Way to highlight the friggin’ entitlement complex of the clone classes. You think we’re freaking immortals, and you’re suddenly so worried about ‘OMG, I might actually DIE!’ Yeah, well, welcome back to humanity, kid. Our carbon-copy existence isn’t immortality, it’s serial disposability. You can die. You will die. And your friends will replace you, and never even give a damn that you died.
Just like you never even gave a damn about any of them dying. You just replaced them with someone just like them.
Pretty clearly, the UTFS. And I can totally acknowledge the strategic necessity of saying ‘we’re gonna halt any offensive moves while we try to evac civilians’. Playing defense is a legitimate option. Shitting on people who don’t agree with that decision, less so.
1. And as much as I frikkin’ hate it, I’m not even really gonna get pissed off at people pointing their finger at me and calling me a piece of crap because I didn’t leave. I gave my reasons for staying to see the war through. I have to live with that decision. Sucks to be me. But there’s a legit case to be made that by staying, I’m supporting people who committed a particularly heinous act, and I gotta own that.
regarding the slaving claims, I can point you, quite directly, to the outlet points of all evacuated civilians by UNF, and Bosena Accords as well before the Accords made the decision to stop their evacuation efforts because of the particular vehemence of attacks against them. All of those places are in republic secured locations, quite contrary to the Khumatariat regime in Skarkon’s smoke blowing. All flights were actively documented, as were all civilians brought off planet from Skarkon II as we had already expected the belligerent smear response they have tried to paint on all involved.
Disregarding the partiality of its source, that exculpation barely constitutes a defence; he brought Bosena Accords into open conflict with near every armed group on the planet, somehow provoked Red Troop, publicly suspended hostilities with the Collective… but there was no illegal slaving, considering the other lines crossed, that one seems relatively inert.
We’ve been in conflict with Seykal Expeditionary, Krullefor Organization for long since before they were ‘made legitemate contractors’ for the system. They have, throughout, been majorly problematic entities, and refused collaboration against triglavians multiple times now. My own forces have also avoided conflict with thee Triglavians, though generally for more pragmatic reasons while we continue evacuations, I don’t blame the Accords at all for not adding an additional force to the list trying to kill them.
Edit: I also don’t think that Red Troop really needed much excuse to get involved and were already looking for a reason, if what I have learned about the particular organization is any indicator. I’ve heard rumblings that they’ve targetted any warclone group that steps even partially out of whatever lines they define as ‘being good pawns.’ This however is just the most overt of their operations since the purges during the 21 Gun Riots, what most know as the ‘warlord uprising’
Capsuleer and warclone paramilitaries engaging in independent military action against government security contractors they consider problematic is in of itself problematic; it seems you are already adequately informed on what happens when such problems cross a threshold.
originally this war in Skarkon was against groups traditionally considered criminals, especially by the Minmatar Republic, until the current Khumatar was appointed and started openly backing them, though we suspected he and his goons had been backing the groups for some time before that.
Clearly the situation changed, I suppose when one has a murder of warclones every problem appears to require explosions and looting; it may complicate an accurate assessment of proceedings.
Precisely why i asked what would be a better suited word/concept to talk about group A since quality 1 does not seem to apply. (Talking how quality 1 does not apply does not give much information to handle the discussion)
And did not get a response about the topic.
Sniffing farts is not one of my kinks, but thank you for the suggestion.
in all fairness…
I shot those contractors first those “military contractors”
I’m not going to argue in circles here on pedantic personal definitions of integrity. We both made difficult choices in this, you and I. The difference is I have the conviction to stand by our actions. I expect and demand the same from our allies. Fury and I have discussed the situation internally for a clean break with no hurt feelings. But I won’t allow our division to be used as a talking point to criticize the Accords.
Except that a key contributing factor for the escalation and breakdown on Skarkon was very directly due to a certain Khumatar slandering us as “Angels Cartel slavers” to consolidate his own power.
This ignores the fact that we were literally under charter in Molden Heath by the Thukker tribe to combat criminal piracy in the first place as a part of the original settlement agreement. A settlement agreement that was never retracted.
We acted entirely within accordance of not only the law, but negotiated and approved regional customs when we started our campaign against Krullefor and Seykal smuggling in the region. The issue, ultimately, only became a matter of us acting “problematically” when we started going after ‘the wrong pirates’ who were deeply and illegally in bed with the RSS.
Who is to blame for all this , anyone ? Who has let the side down, i believe Mega Corps had a interest in Skarkon .