Kril Efrit. Full stop.
I will speak up though on the whole “integrity” argument.
Integrity has more to do with “doing the right thing” in your own personal principles and moral thinking.
Me not wanting to be apart of the accords due to them being more in line with trigs is a totally reasonable thing in most peoples eyes and in some it can totally be traitorous for leaving the group.
I still have my integrity, but we clearly have different priorities. I fight for the republic regardless of who I am with, and although I also support Warclones because I am one if such group chooses to go down a path that I deem unworthy I’m not sticking with that group, no matter the timing or circumstances. and as I said before I’m having a shift of opinion and change in my life so this was bound to happen regardless of when or where.
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I would respectfully disagree that the lack of illegal slaving is relatively inert.
To begin, conflict with the now military contractors began well before their services were secured by government entities for their work on Skarkon II. As such initial conflict, while destructive and ill advised in the Assembly, was within standard norms and legal actions able to be taken. Especially given our mandate and force authorization for the region from the Thukker Tribe
After the appointment of Khumatar Efrit their services were secured on the pretense that, among other things, Warclones operating in the area were involved in illegal slaving operations. Even so, while our investigations continued, official ROE was changed to authorize combat only for defense of self or of mortals, all of our other non-combat operations continued including our humanitarian aid, infrastructure repair and construction, and attempts to resolve issues with the planet’s atmospheric condition.
Following these events, a number of humanitarian crises occurred wherein we offered our assistance, skills, and expertise to augment the RSS’s abilities and that of their contractors, especially with the issues of Chemical Weapons caches having been discovered where our immortality and field experience would have insulated us from the worst of the effects.
All the while our efforts were taking incoming and increasing fire from contractors, but not the RSS Directly. Eventually the RJD began an investigation into the allegations, at which point we offered full cooperation.
During the Triglavian invasions of the system we repeatedly offered a ceasefire and in some cases active support for ongoing operations on the ground. We were met with a hail of gunfire, repeated slanderous and libelous statements, and other instances of hostility despite our efforts.
Even still, I have argued against formalization of relationships with the Kybernauts and the Triglavians, simply not enough is known about them and their efforts. But from the perspective of Warden Eskola-Fae, such action appeared and appears necessary for the continued survival.
For my part, I am planning on leading an expedition at some point with warclone infiltrators to examine the state of occupied planets in other systems, I am not sold on the Triglavians as having the best intentions.
For now I am tolerating our non-aggression pact with the Triglavians, as we have an obligation to the mortals on the surface of Skarkon II, and I have an obligation to the Accords and our members. I do not agree with it, and my initial vote was to oppose formalization, and I even spoke against the Warden having taken such unilateral actions without a vote in the first place. In order to support this course, I must have assurances about the mortal lives on the planet. The Kybernaut clade is not in the best of positions in my mind as they have already conducted an unprovoked attack on at least one of our SAR vessels during the invasion.
That said, when we’ve bent over backwards to offer peace and cooperation with the rightful authorities and have been met with gunfire and thousands of mortals killed…and are offered peace by another despite our previous attempts to collaborate against them, it makes their offer somewhat enticing. As such I can’t blame my Warclone brethren for seeking such a course, given the stacking of forces against them. That said if I find harm coming to the mortals of worlds I will not hesitate to take my opposition to such a course more direct.
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Well, since Group A is the people who left…
What word/concept would you use for those who left and the ones who stayed then?
What makes you think I know either group well enough to presume to do that?
That’s kinda odd, since, you know, you’re the one here saying he lacks integrity for acting on his convictions. Those public accusations are a really strange way to show ‘a clean break with no hurt feelings’.
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Meddling outsiders and subversives seeking to undermine the legitimate Republic authorities.
You really missed the part where, when the RJD opened their investigation and arrived in Skarkon, Bosena Accords, and UNF both offered our full cooperation and to pull out should the RJD require us to. That request never came.
Furthermore, the Krullefor Organization, now a ‘legitemate security contractor’ for the Skarkon system, until very recently was a commonly and openly hated as criminal syndicate by many Matari, capsuleer and baseliner alike, until, apparently, the bastard Efrit says they weren’t. Quite convenient, that. In fact, it was Matari capsuleer groups that had advised Bosena Accords, when they had initially gotten embroiled in the conflict with Krullefor, to continue fighting them when a choice to focus on either them or the Angel Cartel(which Krullefor and Seykal were in an criminal and aggressive turf war in Molden Heath against) presented itself, instead of allying with Krullefor to push harder against the Angels. In fact, I do believe the specific wording from that conversation was that allying with the Krullefor was worse than helping the Angels. From your own people.
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He presented situations where “Integrity” applies. It seems your understanding of “Integrity” differs from his, and since he should learn about it, one may infer you know something about it that he does not, so much as to point it that he does not, even if you do not make it explicit as to what is.
Regardless, your concept of “integrity” remains undefined and clarification would help the discussion.
[quote="Arrendis, post:47, topic:268288]
What makes you think I know either group well enough to presume to do that?
[/quote]
Since you pointed that “Integrity” does not lead to certain things:
“I don’t think ‘integrity’ requires me to hang around until everyone else counts up the votes”
"I don’t believe ‘integrity’ requires me to not say something like ‘this is some ■■■■■■ up ■■■■, what the HELL is wrong with you?
“Nor do I have to ‘discuss it beforehand’.”
What word/concept would you use?
Describing Minmatar politics as “complicated” is the biggest understatement since the first Caldari described the weather in the Kaalakiota Peaks as “a bit cool and breezy”.
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I didn’t miss that part at all. It makes my point - you went ahead and got involved anyway, without approval from the legitimate authorities sent to deal with the situation.
The lawful course of action would be to wait until the RJD had concluded their investigations and uphold their findings.
He is the legitimate authority in this case; security contracts are by his appointment. Your obvious hatred of the man doesn’t give you the right say otherwise, or hinder Krullefor’s campaign.
Was Khumatar Efrit present at that conversation? Did that advice come from him? Did he endorse these Matari capsuleers to speak on his behalf?
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Efrit was not active as the khumatar at the time or even near Skarkon. He was busy with his activity with his cushy core world assignment, until the mess he was backing on the side in the Heath boiled over, and he was ‘promoted’ to oversee Skarkon and go down with his ship by the Sanmatar.
He assigned them, retroactively, as security contractors, in a desperate move to legitimize them and solidify his control of the local populace, which had already been actively fighting against the Krullefor and Seykal as well. We backed the local populace. That he and his goons have repeatedly brutalized for being ‘dissidents and sympathisers’, regardless of whether it was the case or not. For Ashes sakes they’re currently hurling tactical nukes at evacuation ships that they don’t like because they can’t decide who can get off planet anymore, and trying to declare those evacuations as wartime slaving despite quite the large amount of evidence to the contrary. The man is insane.
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Which voids any previous conversations and opinions that capsuleers may have had.
See, this is why it would have been better for everyone if you had just let the RJD do their investigation. I firmly believe they would be more thorough in their conclusions than yours, which are evidently based on personal hatred.
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Considering he covertly funded the people who have killed a number of my men on the ground before his declaration of them being ‘legitimate security’, I believe my hatred is somewhat justified. And I do agree, I think the RJD should have been allowed to do its investigation as well. Unfortunately, the Triglavians royally ■■■■■■ that, as Khumatar Efrit has apparent unilateral decision now to decide who lives and dies on the surface without recourse.
I was fully prepared to pull my people out before the current liminality situation occurred, Precisely because of the RJD’s investigation, and indeed had been readying craft to pull them all back should the call have come. We are, unfortunately, not in such a timeline.
I will withdraw my previous incrimination on Khumatar Efrit’s mental state. Perhaps insane is too harsh. Instead, I would say I must question the mental fortitude of a man who willingly allows the use of nuclear weapons on his own people. And before that authorized the summary executions of political malcontents under guise of rooting out warclones. If the RJD does manage their investigation and proves that he has indeed condoned and authorized these things, I will be glad he will be held accountable for his folly and actions. If not, well. I’ve seen the evidence first hand on the ground. I’ve met capsuleers with more humanity than that brutality.
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Which, again, says nothing about claims of knowledge about the people involved.
For what? Are you looking for me to define a quality that would require those things? Because, you know, there’s dozens of reasons people might choose to wait, or hold their silence, or discuss their grievances before leaving. And I make absolutely no claims about knowing which ones were involved for which people.
If you see something with six large feathered wings, a snake’s head, fourteen millipede legs, and the body of a camel flying toward you through space, and someone says ‘that ain’t human’, they’re not claiming to know what it is.
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Hey! ‘Thugs’, please. (kidding)
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Much of what is dismissed as madness can be adequately explained by rapacity; an axiom which holds just as true for the behaviour of yourself and your warclone friends as Efrit’s retinue.
You have shown your colours, and regardless of whether or not you make it off world, your interference in the internal affairs of our people and your “normalizing” of relations with a people which has inflicted hitherto unimaginable atrocities against all of New Eden will not be forgotten.
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