While I do not actively support the colective, I’d argue that they are no more prone to atrocity than any of the big four empires. Afterall, the collective generally has left civilians to their own devices, and not majorly impeded baseline civilian evacuation efforts, nor have they threatened the use of tactical weapons against evacuations like say, the UTFS and Khumatariat regimes in Skarkon. The harvesting of stars is of concern and dangerous, but I would hardly call it ‘unimaginable atrocity.’
And before you say ‘but they have attacked evacuations,’ they have attacked, primarily, capsuleer run evacuation efforts. They clearly do not classify capsuleers, regardless of intent, as ‘civilian,’ and should not, as we are not.
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I’m beginning to deeply suspect no one here actually knows what normalizing relations means.
There is no polite way to say this, you are a criminal, by the very threats you are squawking about it is clear you have no standing on Skarkon II; and if insurrectionist forces made similar attempts to remove the populace from an Imperial world, I hope they would meet an equally final if rather more precise end.
The same constricted thinking that helps you rationalise away responsibility for your own actions blinds you to the consequences of theirs; it is likely that the incidental deaths from side effects of stellar manipulations, from severed trade routes, from degradation of security, and yes military deaths make the Triglavian Collective in their short time among us, the most efficient genocidists in the recorded history of this cluster.
Criminal only by statement of the khumatar. Claimed a slaver despite my people being quite openly anti-slavery since we’ve been active in the cluster And having proven that all evacuations undertaken are outletting into Republic custody. Called an angel collaborator despite having actively destroyed angel vessels in Skarkon and anywhere else they’ve been problematically found. And all the while still not considered a criminal by the wider Minmatar Republic because I have actively worked to make relations as positive as possible and having maintained transparency with my evacuation operations on where they route. Where they outlet. And who civilians are handed over to. The Khumatar can claim me a criminal all he likes. And in his little falling realm of Skarkon, I may be a criminal to him and his lackeys, I won’t contend that. But elsewhere, he has no control of the narrative, and in the longer term I am happier being the villain to a minor despot than just letting people die.
“and yes military deaths make the Triglavian Collective in their short time among us, the most efficient genocidists in the recorded history of this cluster.” Thanks for calling the kybernauts and Trigs efficient.
I do not believe anything anyone says about anyone without someone presenting evidence to back up those claims, but that still does not change that this is an internal matter concerning our people on a Minmatar world. Interference from outsiders will be frowned upon regardless of their goals, their methods and their motivations.
In general one should never take hyperbole as a compliment.
sounds like season 3 of Prison Break…
All of these things are well documented on the Summit you’re just ignorant and have no business speaking on things when you clearly are out of your depth and talking out of your ass. This isn’t a court trial, despite however highly you think of yourself the burden of proof isn’t on us to dredge up the same talking points and documentation every time some asshole feels the need to voice their opinion without doing the bare minimum research. Maybe ask questions when you don’t know what you’re talking about instead of making bold false claims and then backpedaling.
If I have to waste any more of my breath and my life explaining why this whole “you are outsiders interfering” is completely horseshit when we’ve done this multiple times now seemingly several times per thread I am going to shoot myself in the face, reclone, then shoot myself again.
I believe Galm, that he was referring to Efrit’s claims of our criminality and slaving in this instance.
additionally, while I appreciate your support here, I’d advise against full knee-jerk reactions. Mr. Swolin was making a point about the collectivist mentality held by many Matari more so than making an indictment on our actions, at least in this last response.
Jesoph Swolin is of the Sebiestor tribe, born and raised on Mikramurka, Matar, and he is one of the most respected commanders of EDENCOM Defense Initiative.
You might want to reconsider your attitude.
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Then maybe he should be concerned and informed about how Kril Efrit conspired with the Seykal and Krullefor during the attack on Mikramurka instead of publicly attacking us, the group that’s been investigating and documenting this conspiracy despite being “outsiders” at the cost of it ruining our ties with the Republic.
And now AEGIS and Red Troop are attempting to kill us, all because we pushed investigating the Khumatar. What incentive do I have to care for whatever honorifics they feel entitled to when they can’t show us the barest amount of respect to us. They haven’t done the bare minimum research before speaking and are cooperating with the group now trying to purge us.
I won’t be talked down to and told to watch my tone like I should mind my betters. Whatever illusion of authority, seniority, and power you have it means nothing to me and its a frakking joke you’d think you can pull that card here now.
Warden Eskola-Fae. Perhaps it would be prudent for you to read what your allies and friends have to say, instead of rushing forward head first like a rabid hound after a furrier when you lock sights on someone.
I understand your misgivings and the stress of the situation you currently find yourself in, but this is not the time nor place to be unduly pushing our frustrations at those not directly affiliated with our enemies. AEGIS and Red Troop are the main enemy here that needs focusing now, followed closely by the Seykal and Krullefor.
You need to accept that, no matter how good our relations are with the Republic, because of their specific collective mentality, even with the best intentions, we are all an interfering force in the eyes of many. I’ve accepted it, and will deal with the consequences therein. I do reiterate that the point Mr. Swolin was making was to make sure we understood that, and not indicting us for taking action. And I encourage you to re-read what his full comment was in response to.
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Is should not be surprising I suppose, when a warclone presents as the proverbial man with a hammer, to whom every problem appears a nail.
AEGIS and Red Troop are attempting to kill you because you prominently involved yourselves in an armed insurrection against a CONCORD member, when warclones do that; it is Red Troop’s job to put them down.
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The situation is a great deal more complicated than that Ms. Yassavi. Ontop of that, AEGIS and Red Troop being deployed interestingly is in direct violation of an order by the Republic Justice Department regarding SARO operations in Republic space. There is ongoing conflict of interest between RJD and RSS, with Efrit still being heavily connected with the latter and having called for, against the RJD mandate, AEGIS and Red Troop’s deployment.
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More complicated perhaps, but I cannot see how jurisdictional manoeuvring by the Republic’s neonate institutions gives a moral or legal basis for the jejune adventures of a dullard warden and his ill-fated lackeys.
And I don’t see why anyone should care about your opinion on that? I mean, there’s outsiders, and then there’s Enemy.
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It seems you and I diverge on that point; while I often do not care for my enemies’ opinions, I assuredly care about them.
You are allegedly a diplomat and leader, yes?
And you missed my point completely, and went directly to personal insults. Unsurprising at this point, I guess.
I ignored your point because it was poorly made, your intention was not for your misplaced rhetorical question to be addressed; but presumably to cast doubt upon my standing to comment upon the matter.
Allow me to solve that for you, I have no such standing, and am merely an opinionated bystander.
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We have presented evidence to support our claims at multiple junctures throughout the various discussions, debates, and calls for assistance and help on Skarkon II, our burden of proof has been satisfied. Additionally, we were authorized to enter and settle in the region by the Thukker Tribe to conduct counter-piracy and anti-criminal activities, and most members of the accords have been operating and living in the region continuously for over seven years now.
While yes I understand that our involvement and activities can be looked at with a degree of suspicion, we are hardly a new or unauthorized force within the region. And while our mandate has changed in some ways since the initial inception, particularly after the Warlord Uprising and its subsequent quelling by both Accords Forces and CONCORD’s SARO Red Troops, our authorization within the region was never rescinded. And our time within the region living on-world and in station, meeting with the people, defending them, and deterring all manner of threats from affecting the mortals hardly makes as much of outsiders as what some may claim us to be. Especially for the populace of the People within the region for whom we have been a shield, healer, sword, protector, and Aegis against the threats posed by such a space beyond the typical concern or force projection ability of the Republic Fleet.
To address more directly questions of burden of proof:
Our claims have been backed up in a comprehensive, if a bit sensationalist report, compiled and published in a successful effort to get higher authorities to open a more formal investigation than what we were capable of conducting or enforcing. The RJD launching their investigation was the successful culmination of such, but was interrupted by the Triglavian invasion of the system. An abbreviated version is also available
The claims of Khumatar Efrit as to our actions though are completely without substantiation other than his word. As one of the primary on-ground operational oversight commanders for the extended force deployment:
- Slaving operations are specifically prohibited by Accords Policy, Code of Conduct, and operational procedure.
- Cooperation with slaving operations is prohibited by the same
- Our conflict began well before the entities became lawful extensions of the RSS operating in the region
- We were forced to redirect counter-cartel operations to a new, more pressing threat, and thankfully the cartel withdrew the majority of its presence as the conflict between various groups escalated.
- A ceasefire order was issued almost as soon as the security contractors were formalized, except in case of defense of mortals or self defense.
We offered to cooperate in opposition to the Triglavians, both in the initial, unsuccessful invasion and in the more recent attempt, which did result in the Triglavian foothold being successful. Both were ignored and instead we continued to be the target of offensive operations, despite our general cessation of direct action in armed conflict and refocus on humanitarian relief, infrastructure rebuilding, and counter-criminal operations.
Even still we remain hopeful and assist in evacuations, providing shuttles and ships to the populace, but they must operate the ships themselves for fear of reprisal from remaining republic forces. We have moved an Ansiblex gate with required fuel and supplies into a secure location in the hopes that, if the system is dragged down into the abyss as many fear, its conduit based jump system can be modified to function even if the system is taken down into the abyss, though our hope is to get as much of the populace who wishes to leave offworld as soon as possible.
I still maintain my standing orders to warclones under my command: Do not fire unless fired upon, or in defense of mortal lives. SARO Red Troops and AEGIS have not, to my knowledge or anything that I can confirm, engaged or attacked any target that was not posing a direct, active threat to their operations in contrast to Seykal and Krullefor forces. As such I would hesitate to label them as an enemy, only as a potential enemy if things keep devolving.
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