Wow, what a long winded load of BS, almost every single reply you post on the forums is the same and they all sound like this:
That’s a perfect description of you, constantly whining about how tough it is to ‘Press F1’ ganking compared to anything else in this game.
I spend a lot of time out in Null. We have our issues. Goku had to be nerfed because it was too easy for teh ganker, as an example.
The Predator Prey thing is still there now. If you might as well not bother with a whole ship class ( as an example ) because of how easy it is to kill it then something is wrong.
As I have said before that gank fleet that got me would not have succeeded in Null. Because they would have been seen coming.
But if all you care about is zKillboard then the predator prey balance won’t make any sense to you.
By the way, Blackout was a bust because of Null mass-unsubscribing. With Cyno Issues still about quite a few have not come back either.
It takes ages to rustle up a couple of bil. To have it fed to a bunch of newbs in T1 catalysts is… Well, Null unsubscribed en-masse with Blackout.
EVE isn’t supposed to be easy. And that is also true for Gankers.
Gankers forgetting where their ships come from perchance?
This.
3-4m ISK in Catalyst. So a group may well be worth 40-50m ISK.
And it kills 2-3B ISK ships.
And the 2-3b ISK ship just has to sit there. Defenceless.
It’s a ridiculous mechanic. Which is why I’d like to see Gankers forced to think again. Whoever did the math first time round was clever, fair play, but this is another Mechanic that may well be being used to bash the newbs too much.
So let’s check it over.
But they still have a bigger negative impact than gankers,
who do not create ISK out of thin air!
Just doing my work in further desensitizing people and getting blocked.
Oh wow, is desensitizing a word? I don’t even know! I’m so dumb. 
How I guesstimate the amount of people blocking me?
I can’t!
What I can do, though, is counting flags,
analysing people’s behaviour,
observing upholding of rules, etc. etc.
You’re rather … new … at least to me … so you don’t even know me. Nothing I say is wrong per se. I really try taking care of which I’m saying being factually correct and my observations about people are usually spot on for good reasons. In reality all of this, here, is completely irrelevant. People talking here is a gigantic waste of time and effort. Forums like this one are poisoned by the grandest (read: most inflated) Egos you can find. They’re so full of themselves, they really believe that what they’re writing is going to achieve anything, help anything, or do anything. If it was for me, I’d ban a quarter of the people from the forums effectively immediately, including myself, and then close it down behind a paywall and heavy moderation caring about factuality (isthataword) and truthfulness more than anything else.
*cough*
OOHHHHH HEY HAVE YOU SEEN THIS VIDEO ALREADY??
I can listen through this without going crazy!!!
Not once have you actually seen me. Every single person knowing me knows that I am not using scouts, spend all my time in space and prefer making my gameplay as challenging as possible, unlike you … who is just yet another lying twofaced asshole loser carebear … and that’s actually the truth!
Hey, I got another 3.5 billion ISK in my wallet just recently.
Want another 200 million ISK bounty?
So wait… are they ganking newbs, or are they ganking people in 2-3b ships?
Are we considering anyone stupid enough to get suicide ganked a “newb” regardless of their established wealth or time spent playing? Because if so, the generally accepted terminology there is actually noob.
uh…suck it.
Since the introduction of skill injectors the two are no longer mutually exclusive, it is possible to be a newbie and be getting around in 2-3bil isk ships… isn’t it great 
However I would suggest if you’ve gone and managed to spend 2-3bil on a ship + fit (however you’ve come across the isk/skills to use it) then you have positioned yourself such that you no longer get to claim “I don’t know what I’m doing & need assistance (and CCP to look out for me)” as you’ve decided you do not need their help by jumping in a 2-3bil ship and undocking 
So to (finally) answer your question (in a round about way), no they’re not ganking newbs if they’re ganking 2-3bil ships… if on the other hand they’re ganking ventures, then yes, quite possibly that they’re ganking newbs 
Edit: Just saw this:
Not too fussed on the bounty… but if you’re giving away isk a 200mil donation to mah bank balance would not go unnoticed!
Regards,
Cypr3ss.
Creating isk out of thin air on is not “negative impact” on it’s own - it only becomes one when it’s heavily outweighing good generation and isk sinks in the system. And at this point I hardly find enough Mission runners to ever try to make a dent on those. Incursion runners/ratters would be more of an issue nowadays on that department imo.
As for negative impacts of gankers - well if we narrow it down to suicide gankers (since original thread was about HiSec) then there is one big issue - they are having negative impact on the most baseline goods generation - mining.
Well I must have missed the point when you started attending forums… Just bumped back from couple years of avoiding this hive of scum and villainy 
if you have such observations then I’d say you are failing to express them accurately 
I can agree with You on this one. Also this notion of yours is kind of ironic
I remember when I first time discovered EvE forums they did hold much higher standard of users compared to all other games forums. Unfortunately it went downhill over those years.
It used to be - paywall being called EvE subscription
I think we had in there a bit of overlay between threads discussed - the one about impact of suicide ganks on newbros and suicide ganking as a whole.
That is I think Larry was hitting on suicide ganking as a concept.
Personally I don’t care all that much about suicide ganking as a whole concept, but I am curious about wether or not premise from which OP started of his idea would be supported by data.
Look no further!
Obviously now we will get the usual carebear trolls with the usual conspiracy theories of how CCP wants to sabotage their own game by lying intentionally or misinterpreting their own data to fit the HTFU culture. Don’t fall for that, CCP is a business and they want to make money. If suicide ganking had any negative impact on the retention of new players they would have turned it off years ago.
I’ll give you better one:
b…b…but it’s 2015’s data D: gasps
(jokes aside alot of things can change within span of 4 years, so while it may be interesting stuff to hear later when I’m not in work, odds are that the data there is outdated by now)
But that isn’t a “negative” impact - it’s like kinda the game. CCP controls the spawn rates. They can flood the game with a vast excess minerals (and arguably have) to whatever degree they want. The whole idea of the game is that we compete over the collection of the resources of New Eden, so the fact there are ways to “impact” the collection of minerals is a feature.
There is no danger there is a lack of minerals flowing into this game. And there is also no reason to declare any decrease of that flow as “negative” for the game. Yes, in-game if you are a miner, then it is negative when something gets in the way of your operation, but don’t conflate that with what is good for the health of the game or its economy.
There is no data that suicide ganking is a newbro retention problem. Every talk or communication from CCP in recent years, from people like CCP Rise or CCP Ghost, indicate that it is pretty much a myth that “griefers” chase new players out of the game. The vast, vast majority of them are lost way before they even encounter something like PvP in highsec, and are just bored or confused out of the game, or fail to integrate and understand what the game really is about. Honestly, I think most of that is unavoidable given the type of game Eve is, but CCP could do better to ease players into the game and especially give them some accessible, interesting content early on.
Making (part of) highec safe would do nothing to help real newbros. Those areas would just be flooded by veterans, out-competing the real new players in their pimped out ships with max skills and sucking up all the resources, making it even harder for new players to get a start. The last thing Eve needs is even safer wealth generation for the fat veterans who have min/maxed this game into stagnation.
Ganking hasn’t changed really since 2015. There are more recent talks from CCP Ghost that indicate the very same thing: ganking is not a retention problem for new players.
But your comment pretty much revealed how you are seriously bias on this topic and don’t even watch the thing you asked for (you asked if OPs idea was supported by data) before you start to dismiss it.
By same logic, mission runners has no negative impact on others either - which puts both groups at 0, which still prooves Solecist wrong
(Now logic in here was that solecist was implying that isk generation out of thin air hurts the economical status of other players by devauling isk all together - inflation of currency occurs when currency is generated faster than goods to back that currency up - I hope you can figure out rest of logical chain in there on Your own )
just because methodology didn’t does not mean it’s impact did not as well
Then why you didn’t start with linking something more recent?
Don’t get me wrong I will watch it later today it’s just I can see already alot of room for inaccuracy just on account of data it was based on being old.
100 Million.
Now we can negotiate.
What are you willing to put in so I increase the amount?
I’m not sure the confusion here.
Generation of resources, be it ISK or minerals, out of thin-air “hurts” the other players who already have those things by devaluing it in the economy. The game therefore has to be balanced so those things appear to easily or without error/risk/content or the game is indeed harmed. Same with mining - it needs to be balanced by both.
Maybe we are on the same page here - I’m still not really sure what your point is despite your winking - but I was primarily referencing your comments on suicide ganking (as I quoted). Suicide ganking does not generate resources - it consumes them and even stimulates demand, as well as making resource collection more of a game. The risk of attack creates choices and strategies, and separates “good” miners from “bad” miners. Without it, the whole thing would be a rather boring, deterministic progression through the mining ship line from a low-skill player in a Venture, to a max-skill player in a blinged out Hulk (or whatever) with nothing separating miner success but time invested. That’s not really a game.
There is no “negative impact” nor is it a “big issue” that game play exists to throttle ore spawning into the universe or that there is game play that forces decisions and delivers consequences for those decisions to miners. In fact, as you seem to understand, the problems come when such mechanics don’t effectively exist like for Incursion income, or say Rorqual mining under a supercap umbrella.
So Solecist is right that gankers, or maybe more generally antagonists, have less a negative impact on the economy than those turbo farmers who relentless devalue everything. Hunters/antagonists/gankers actually are a very good thing for the economy and for the game, only becoming a problem if their presence becomes completely oppressive. But if you look at the MERs, the destruction numbers are awfully anemic, and there is no hint we are anywhere near a problem with too much destruction, and worse, there are all sorts of warning signs overproduction is a major problem for New Eden’s economy, and perhaps even the long-term viability of the game.
Farmers, or maybe more specifically entitled farmers, are one of the biggest problems with the game today. Their hypocritical demands for more safety from the universe around them, but yet more ability to influence others has basically knee-capped this sandbox game. Ok, CCP bears some responsibility for indulging them for so many years, but it is all of us that will now have to suffer with the big changes that are necessary to return the game to health.
Maybe that’s not even possible at this point, but I also am pretty sure CCP hasn’t thrown in the towel yet and suggestions to completely turn parts of highsec into safe space for farmers aren’t in the cards, because that is all the OP is asking for. Maybe there is room for a new safe space as part of a new NPE, but otherwise, until the player-driven economy collapses and the game is put into maintenance mode, highsec will not be made into a safe zone.
It may be pedantic, but ganking does generate isk from nothing - the insurance payouts on the carebear ships is a net isk faucet.
ISK of thin Air…
You, brainiacs… all, just ALL of ISK in the entire game was maded of thin air.
You can buy Plex for money, but not the ISK. Where does the whole ISK come from?
Nullsec carrier ratting, mostly.
if generation of goods and generation of isk is at same rate nothing it devalued.
let me give you simplified example
let’s say there is whole 100 isk in the game, and 100 units of ore.
this would mean that +/- one rock of ore would be valued at 1 isk
now everyone gets a payout from whatever the source increasing isk amount in the system to 200
amount of ore stays same - isk was devalued because now for every ore piece you have 2 isk.
or instead 100 of ore rocks were mined out - this devalues ore because it’s 0.5 isk per ore rock.
buth if both happened at once nothing get’s devalued - with 200 isk in the system and 200 units of ore, you still have 1 isk per ore unit.
what is impact on such system of someone who let’s say is only ratting for bounties and does not loot/salvage the wrecks at all? it provides isk flow
what is impact of a miner? it provides ore flow.
what is impact of suicide ganker? assuming he succeeded he removes ore equivalent of two ships (his own and a mining vessel he assailed) from the system, while also slowing down that specific miner (getting new ship back to work takes time), if he didn’t succeeded (miner managed to escape) at best he only slowed down that miner a bit.
as for fueling demand for rocks to build the ships - I’d still say suicide gankers do not blow enough ships to really affect that one to the point where it matters.
You know what else separates “good miner” from “bad miner”? amounts of ore feeded into the system within time period.
Main issue (imo) with incursions that they provide alot of raw isk into the system without enough of goods to cover it. To go back with isk and ore rocks analogy - incursion runners are flooding system with isk, without generating enough ore rocks to compensate - which devalues isk.
Rorqual under supercap umbrella is mainly problematic because it’s single ship that can on it’s own reach mining outputs comparable to small fleets of barges/exhumers.
There is one additional faucet to the whole case that I didn’t mention in this post - sinks.
There is quite a number of isk sinks in the game - various taxes, costs of buying faction modules/ships from loyality stores, skill books listed by NPCs, and so on.
Now what are the “sinks” for our shiny ore rocks? well they are used to manufacture modules ships etc…
but only method to then remove them out of system permanently (as isk sinks do) is to blow stuff up.
so what suicide gankers do to economy upon succesfull gank?
he blows up a couple of ships, and inflict slow down onto mining operation of one HiSec miner.
so he slows generation of ore rocks, and removes some out of the system - without affecting isk balance.
Now you can argue on impacts in here but in grand scale since current system already has disbalance on effective sinks - unless he overdoes it, it should more or less zero itself.
Now mission runners - well they are slowly generating isk, with possibility to generate some ore rocks if one is looting/salvaging after himself. part of this isk can be then sank into generating more goods from lp store. But there is more than enough of isk sinks in the system to compensate for that. Especially if same mission runner actually does loot&salvage, and uses the lps to buy new items.
So as you can see - at best both are having no negative impact onto economy as opposed to solecist claim of mission runners having greater impact “on average”.
Now what happens if we get both to extreme?
well extreme mission farmer will generate more isk for sure - but all still within boundaries of game sinks ability to compensate.
if we take suicide ganking to the utmost extreme - you shut off completely whole high-sec mining, run out of ships to blow out and amount of ore rocks plummet compared to the isk in the system.
Problem here, is that this is not what solecist have claimed. Because groups he was hitting on are NOT those “turbo farmers, who relentlessly devalue everything”. Those are Rorquals, carrier ratting under supercap umbrella in nullsec. And blaming HiSec habitants for that is simply wrong.
The problematic bit in here is not amount of destruction being done - as I’ll agree not enough stuff is being blown up for the moment being compared to the flow of goods into the system, but distribution of things being blown up - at least in my opinion. To be precise - as far as industrial side of destruction goes, not even remotely enough of rorquals is being blown up, compared to small fishes in the HiSec.
And/Or not enought full scale wars are going on in null.
You could surpress all of farming in HiSec completely at this point and it would barely matter for global eve economy - because grand most of eve’s economical problems have their roots in Null.
I hope I managed to clear my stance a bit
That’s a very good point I completely forgot insurances were a thing xD
This would slightly alter the example I provided above, but in the long run - it’d still boil down to both HiSec missioners/miners to have equally neutral impact to economy as a whole.