I seem to remember a CCP quote saying ‘Salvage is only YOURS when it’s in your cargo hold’, this was many many years ago, so i really not sure if i can find it again.
If the salvage is now valuable to you, then get a Salvage Module on it quickly, Yes you may have to gimp your fit a bit, or bring a friend in a salvage boat and split the rewards… but thats the sacrifice you make.
Otherwise just leave those wrecks in space and maybe someone else will come salvage them first.
Well, a simpler but far better way of improving the situation would be for you and the OP to lobby for this new, very valuable salvage to instead be dropped as cargo rather than salvage, rather than trying to up-end the whole of the salvage system. After all, scrap metal shows up both as cargo loot and salvage loot, so why not other items. Leave the basic salvage mechanics alone.
It’s relevant because when a wreck with cargo is salvaged it produces a jetcan to hold the uncollected loot from the wreck. As far as I know, the same game mechanics apply to all forms of cargo container, so I raised the point that if the wreck is granted a timer, there needs to be a way to handle the jetcan cargo container produced from salvaging pre-looting without breaking other uses for jetcans (or cargo containers in general) Regardless of those uses being ‘optimal’, it’s always important to avoid unintended impact on other game mechanics when making changes.
This is fine and dandy, but CCP’s original vision and intentions are irrelevant, only that which is best for players matter, which frequently is different from what CCP starts off with (oh, the many times CCP has completely reworked things…). This is why Knowledgeminer’s “CCP and I know best” attitude has no place here.
This is worth consideration since the new so-called salvage can’t be used for regular rigs used on any other ship. Salvaging yields only salvage for rigs. (Maybe add scrapmetal for fun.) Good idea.
Also, one simple idea that would partially address both sides: Auto-abandon after 60 minutes.
Pairing wreck salvage ownership with an overall wreck (salvage and loot both) auto abandon certainly would solve for players who aren’t cleaning up their wrecks in general - like mission blitzers who drop and MTU while in mission, but don’t salvage anything. It puts more effort into finding the salvage (must probe down instead of just popping to an active beacon to ninja) but ALSO adds the ability to get uncollected loot without having to go suspect.
Which players? What you think is best for you is not necessarily the best for the playerbase as a whole. They should do the best for the game, not just some players.
Letting players compete for the loot or salvage makes it the game of competence, mastery, i.e. intrinsically motivated game. Letting PVE farmers farm makes it extrinsically motivated game for them. Once you’ve went from one to the other it’s extremely hard to turn it over again. Then if rewards get reduced overjustification effect comes in and threads like this spawn.
I was just making a general, standalone statement that the “if it works as CCP intended, it’s fine” argument is ■■■■■■■■. That statement was not tied to this conversation.
Besides, others have come up with two new ideas worth discussing: moving special salvage to loot (since it’s not salvage in the sense that it can be used to make rigs usable by any ship) and autoabandon after 60 minutes. Both of these ideas are more gentle than outright suspect flagging.
Trigalvians should drop good loot. The whole idea behind the loot/salvage split was that the salvage was lower value, so people could squabble over it for fun. It seems that CCP’s recent thirst for pointless chaos has created a bizarre situation where suspect baiting doesn’t even make sense, because the loot is garbage. So . . . CCP’s decision to favor salvage over loot was the fundamental mistake . . . not the distinction between loot suspect flagging and salvage being free.
It sounds to me like you’re in favor of moving the “special salvage”, which isn’t even salvage, to loot, then. This eliminates the need for suspect flagging (esp. if, on top of this, autoabandon is implemented).
Salvaging is a profession already. ‘Ninja’ salvaging is a specific variant on salvaging, but there are entire corps that serve as hired salvagers for players who recognize wreck value but are uninterested in dealing with the time-consuming nature of the salvage system. In these corps, dedicated salvager(s) fleet up with the combat pilot(s) and then pay the combat pilot a negotiated value for the salvage output (metrics vary on how to pick the pay scale). It’s a moderately popular early-game job for players trying to see more of the mechanics of various PvE content, and can be a great intro to trade, missions, incursions, ratting, and industry.
Edit to remove outdated info on exclusivity of salvage mats to wrecks.
Your phrasing suggests your’re using the term “salvage” here as a verb (“salvaging”), so I want to point out that T1/T2 salvage also comes from relic sites. In fact, you can often times get more T1/T2 salvage in a shorter period of time hitting up relic sites than you do from PVE. This is one of the reasons I advise against salvaging even the better L4 missions, which is to say that the lowest end PVE yields shittier salvage (over time) than many relic sites do.
Daaang, that’s changed since I looked at sources last (admittedly a while ago). Salvage components used to be strictly wreck output. Thanks for the clarification.
Yeah not only do you get T1 but a substantially higher chance of scoring T2 and on top of that T3 “ancient relics” for T3 “discovery” (ie. invention that can only be done at Upwell structures and not NPC stations). Also, you have a better chance of getting the “better” salvage among T1/T2.
So anyway, the point is moving “special salvage” (which technically isn’t salvage at all) to loot and keeping the salvage itself accessible to anyone (without suspect flagging) addresses PVEer concerns that they are being deprived of “special salvage” (since it will be loot instead) or salvage in general (since they can get regular salvage - better quality and more of it - from relic sites)
Sorry, but you don’t get to decide what has a place here and what doesn’t…
Except that’s not my argument. You still don’t get it. And the attitude you and others have about this, which is at the root of your inability to get it, is what makes this thread so much fun…
Knowledgeminer’s point is that everyone requesting change is assuming CCP didn’t consider the state of wreck entitlement when they chose to implement this as stuff as salvage instead of as loot. CCP has been known to deliberately make things more challenging for players to get the most out of their efforts - and it is in fact in line with other current development: look at the upcoming mandatory ESS implementation for Nullsec. CCP making a conscious decision to require more engagement to get maximum value is a distinct possibility - and it isn’t inherently a ‘mistake’ or ‘wrong decision’ just because some players don’t like having to work harder to get maximum value.
