@CCP give us salvage scanners, we want to scan for wrecks, even if it comes at a cost/risk/very high Skillpoint expensive - whatever to make it balanced
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Wrecks are destroyed ships.
Why not start at the beginning and look for ships and/or ship destruction? Ships can be found in anomalies, at gates and asteroid belts, or you could attack other players to create wrecks.
If you donāt want to create your own wrecks you can even cooperate with other players in this MMO who do.
Salvagers asking ālet me scan wrecksā makes as much sense as miners asking ālet me mine mineralsā. Youāre a step too late in the chain.
Some tricks to find wrecks:
- destroy ships
- ask a friend or corp member to bookmark sites for you where they destroy wrecks
- dscan anomalies to find which ones are being run by other players, bookmark them for later
- participate in player fleet vs fleet battle and bookmark the location to come back (some of the most profitable wrecks with lots of blue salvage!)
- scan zkillboard for player fleet vs fleet battles and salvage those
- use combat probes to get locations of MTUs or ships that are in sites
In fact your suggestion bypasses the gameplay of combat probes. People can fit against combat probes with sensor boosters, but there is no way to avoid being scanned and caught if people can simply scan your wrecks instead.
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and cosmic signatures, where anomalies can always be warped to and more importantly for this subject be bookmarked, while sigs need to be scanned down.
As such if one doesnāt plan to run them can still bookmark the anomalies in the nearby systems and once the anomaly disappears (completed) can warp there using the bookmark and salvage the wrecks if the person running them didnāt do so.
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- Let players scan wrecks. Add a fifteen minute delay (or whatever). Add a skill. Make it a career. Space scavenger. It includes Reprocessing. Itās a common new bro fantasy when players first start their journey to want begin at the bottom as a space scavenger.
Your suggestions are out of touch.
- Thereās a category of beginner players that just wants to explore the game and discover things for themselves, to slip between the cracks per say, and scavenge for a living.
- They donāt have the skills or knowledge to ādestroy shipsā quite yet, but theyāve undocked.
- Theyāre not in a corp and everything they read is telling them not to join one in case they get scammed.
- Whatās D-scan, whatās a bookmark. Iāll leave it to you to explain this to every solo new bro. Or just let them scan wrecks somehow.
- How do you join a fleet, wait, canāt I just play solo while I learn the gameā¦?
- What is Z-killboard. Wait I have to leave the game to learn this informationā¦ doesnāt that break the immersion? Sigh I just want to salvage and now Iām researching killsā¦ wow Iām not even in the game anymore.
- Combat probes to get the location of MTUās or shipsā¦ Hold on, arenāt you making the argument that locating players in sites is bad? Realistically, do ratters fit sensor boostersā¦ in hi-sec?
This take, what a takeā¦
Your suggestions bypass what it means to be a space scavenger, what it means to play solo, what it means to explore and discover the game, in-the-game, alone, as a beginner, scavenging your way to the top of your own null-sec empire.
Thereās a way to make scanning wrecks work, it just requires effort be put into creating a solution that avoids THE OBVIOUS PITFALLS.
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Locating players using combat probes is good. Players can choose to fit their ship such thar it is nearly impossible to get combat probed, as counterplay.
Likewise spending ISK on higher tier MTUs means they are considerably harder to scan down.
āScan wrecksā bypasses that interction and allows players hunting other players to much more easily probe someone down.
One of the first things a new player learns is āhere are your guns, go shoot this pirateā ātheir ship left a wreck, go loot itā.
New players can find and create wrecks to salvage right from the start.
The other things I mentioned are more advanced ways to find wrecks if the new salvaging player stays around in the game and wants to find more wrecks more easily without creating the wrecks themselves.
Why donāt you try it?
It is already doable. You need to bookmark anoms or combat probe some marauder doing site.
The reason it is not a career is that:
- highsec anoms are not worth the effort, maybe Den, but even that often spawns just frigates and destroyers and in lowsec the anoms arenāt cleared fast enough (in nullsec it should be very viable though)
- if you probe down random player doing level 4 mission then the wrecks are yellow - meaning you canāt tractor beam them or bring them closer with MTU, that meakes the salvaging quite annoying especially since in l4 missions the wrecks can be scattered in radius of 100km
- salvage price is too low to be worth it or rather the amount of salvage you can get from this is too low to be worth it
Yesterday I saw suggestion to make a new signature site that would contain ship wrecks to be salvaged. That I think is a step in right direction, if such sites exists it might make the salvaging ācareerā much more viable.
Scanning wrecks is a bad idea for the reasons that @Gerard_Amatin stated. It would also create a chaos in probe launcher. But some changes to make it more convenient or profitable should be done. Perhaps making the wrecks automatically abandoned after 1 hour (they despawn after 2 hours so thats half the time they are āaliveā).
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I think that youāre so fixed in your ways, and so frightened of what change might bring that you are unable to imagine a solution that doesnāt compromise existing gameplay.
If you make it so that you cannot scan wrecks while there are active ships in siteā¦ I donāt knowā due to interference from active ship electronics effecting the sensitivity of the scanning deviceā¦ then none of the exceptions that you keep repeating matter. I mean if you want to talk counter play; Players could wait cloaked in sites with wrecks that have become scannable and ambush scavengersā¦ oh noā now the turns have tabledā¦
This does not generate enough wrecks fast enough compared to to salvaging a lvl 4 mission site if youāre a beginner. In other words completing minor combat anomalies in hi-sec with just a few wrecks (say 15) which produce mostly āmetal scrapsā with low grade salvaging skills and low grade a low grade salvaging module takes lotās of time, compare that to the money capital ratters make. Your resistance to the idea and to implementing the idea in a way that works really makes no sense. It especially makes no sense when you can just sit camp a gate and kill everything that jumps through. Or suicide bank in Jita. Oh no players might scan down wrecks, meanwhile that mining barge just got suicide gankedā¦
IF, if, IF the new player stays around. Yeah good one. If the new player is willing to eat dirt then thereās golden brown chicken available to them in two years time, meanwhile DONāT LET THEM SEARCH FOR SCRAPS!
Dude I donāt need to scavenge other peoples salvage, I can scavenge my own, but I have enough consideration for other peoples experience to recognise and remember what it is like to be a beginner and have so few options while I wait for the extensive skill point queue timer to grant me permission.
Why donāt you delete your existing accounts (so there can be no alternative for you) and start the game from scratch again and realise how limiting it is to be a beginner and how harmless -if implemented correctly- scanning wrecks of empty sites is.
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They are not worth it to you, but they are worth it to a new player.
Try reach deep into the bag and pulling out a clue, not everybody is like you, not everybody evaluates fun, risk, or value the same way as you.
Besides that you are proving the point that doing your own sites and settling for salvaging the wrecks that that produces does not produce enough material to scavenge. Which is exactly why beginner players want the ability to scan down sites that have been completed in which the player that completed them left the wrecks behind.
So you got there, you just donāt understand that you got there. You managed to identify the problem which is more than I can say for old Gerard.
Itās astonishing how fixed players are within the experience of their own style of play. āOh thatās not worth itā. To you maybe.
What you should have written is that the highest anoms are not worth it to you. I 'll repeat that, Theyāre not worth it to you. But to a beginner they represent an opportunity to undock and engage in an activity that produces some value and allows them to explore the game.
Try, really try, use all your thinking might, to consider and imagine what it is like to be somebody who isnāt you. Put yourself in that persons shoes. Somebody who doesnāt know what a Marauder is, or a combat probe. I know thatās difficult because you are so supremely accomplished at the game that itās just second nature to you to be so knowledgeable, however, thereās a group of players āget thisā with very few skill pointās, like less than three million, and almost no knowledge of the game.
Iāll give you a moment to process that.
And that group of players looks at all those abandoned wrecks and thinks, cool, Iād love to be able to salvage all those wrecks. Their eyes light up at the prospect. and they think GOLD! And they keep playing EVE and eventually maybe one day they become like you.
Gerard Amatin is so scared of upsetting the status quo he couldnāt steel man the argument for scanning wrecks if his ISK horde depended on it. Resistance to anything but the familiar is his default setting. An heās just repeating on auto pilot a sentiment he developed from a period in the game that no longer exists.
Gerard doesnāt want to imagine how it could work. He just wants to resist people suggesting ideas that arenāt the thing he wants worked on.
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Iād say thereās no harm in having a toggle in the Combat Probes Scanning Window to turn wrecks on or off if there isnāt one already? (Iāve never looked but they do appear on dscan so stands to reason).
I donāt see any harm allowing a player to follow a path of just scanning and salvaging, and sure it opens up new play modes: You can bait them and pick them off; just clear a juicy site, leave the wrecks, cloak up and wait.
Right now if I want to salvage my sites Iām pretty much safe in my Noctis.
After all the site has despawned and there is no way anyone can warp to my salvager unless they use combat probes.
Your suggestion is that the site that I spent time clearing is now broadcasted as a beacon for anyone to come ākill the salvagerā, just because I left the site to grab a salvaging ship?
I love changes that change the status quo and improve the game.
Your change does not improve the game, it makes it worse for salvagers like myself who clean their own sites and only helps lazy salvagers like you, or worse, hunters who can now much more easily catch both my combat and my salvaging ship.
I ādeveloped this sentimentā in the past half year when I decided to get a Noctis and learned how to salvage my own sites. Did the game change much since then?
This is why after the new player has improved their salvaging skills a bit and is looking to scale up their salvaging business they can find other players to provide wrecks for them.
Join a corporation, salvage behind a friendly Stormbringer multiboxer and you will have more salvage than your Noctis can keep up with!
What??? This is not about me.
If it is worth it for new players, why donāt the do it then?
All in the name of sustainability and circular economy ā¦ having wrecks despawn seems a wasted opportunity.
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That would require effort.
Is that my suggestion though?
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Theyāre one. Itās called the directional scanner. Learn how to use it and find wrecks with it.
Because it doesnāt existā¦ which is the whole point of the post.
We had this idea like a dozen times. It is not a good one. For the simple reason that wrecks usually appear in dozens or hundreds. In crowded PvE systems even by the thousands.
You want to make them all scannable? And probably last longer? Thats a ridiculous workload for the server to maintain all those active sigs and calculate sometimes thousands of scan results for each probe sweep. Just for the benefit that a few newbros can make some pocket money?
Making each individual wreck a scannable object is just crazy. The benefits are in no relation to the downsides.
The only viable solution for the idea of making āsalvaging others wrecksā a viable option or even a carreer path is this one:
- for each wreck that despawns, a system-wide counter goes up
- if the counter reaches a certain level, a Small Drone Site (scannable signature) is spawned in the system (simulating Drones have found all those wrecks, dragged them to a location and trying to use them to build a new Drone Hive).
- In those Sites, salvagable wrecks are located. Those Sites get āupgradedā (aka replaced) with Larger Drone Sites the higher the system-wide wreck-counter goes. If a site reaches the āmaximumā size, a second āsmallā one appears that then grows again as players produce more wrecks. And so on.
- As those sites grow, the amount of wrecks in them grow, but NPC Drones of course try to protect them more fiercly. So the larger ones would have to cleared by force before you could salvage them
This way, salvaging professionals could check the maps for large amounts of NPC kills and go there to clear out the spawning Drone Sites as they appear. Either with most basic ships that can only take on the smallest sites where none to few guarding NPCs are in, up to one or multiple Noctisā with Drone Firepower and probably an escort ship to clear out the harder ones.
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But then you still cannot salvage those wrecks you find on dscan! /s
I agree that making all wrecks show up on the probe scan will be a huge mess.
I just donāt like the idea of making wrecks spawn in space. The game spawns ships, go turn those ships into wrecks or find someone who does so for you.
Asking for spawned wrecks is skipping a step in the design of EVE.
And whoever wants to find salvage by using their probe scanner: go scan some relic sites.
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On that note any left behind drone that expires and is removed in their natural way (meaning nobody scanned them down and scooped them) should also add to these sites but in the form of more advanced Rogue Drone NPCs, as the Rogue Drones have liberated their brethren and integrated them into their society.
Additionally the same could be done to left behind ships, turning them into Rogue Drones NPCs after they expire and removed from space (and nobody scanned them down and boarded them) the usual way.
Oh I agree, I wouldnāt push for this āsolutionā. I too believe that the current environment is pretty much offering everything that is needed. Just if someone really would want to implement it really bad, I would suggest to implement it that way.
Someone who wants to professionalize in salvaging can just join someone who professionalizes in turning ships into wrecks. Communication and cooperation is key and should be rewarded.
And this āsomeoneā can either be a friend, an alt or a total stranger (hint: combatscan missionrunners, make a bookmark, go in once they are out). I would propose here that wrecks can always be tractored, no matter who owns them. Just the process of stealing the loot gives suspect.
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