[SERIOUS] What can CCP do now to fix PVP in FW?

(Nevyn Auscent) #63

So you want bots to always make the same amount of isk regardless of tier? Tier kay he an issue but it doesn’t change anything for bots.

(Jambi) #64

its inactive on amarr side because most people are smart enough to realize that Tier I rewards are not worth it at all, can still look for fights as a neutral and not have to sit in a plex watching a timer… and it is the bots that pushed it deep into tier I , not saying the LP store is perfect but it isn’t the problem, and the overall game population seems about the same, sorry your just wrong

(Jambi) #65

whats the title of the thread??

(Nevyn Auscent) #66

Sure. But that is nothing to do with bots. Bots are not the only cause of sides going to tier 1.
If tier 1 is an issue (and the need for tags in the LP store is part of what makes it an issue btw) then just call it as it is. Dont try and tie in some scare mongering about bots into it as well.

(Jambi) #67

i can’t converse with people that don’t make sense, yes bots are the biggest reason why amarr is deep into tier I now and anyone that has actually taken part in faction warfare in the last month know it

(Tater-nuts) #68

I like the “front line” idea that has been mentioned several times before in other threads. That has the possibility to create epic fights in low sec FW.

(Sollis Vynneve) #69

Probably a bad idea but how about making it so you can only capture each size plex when you achieve a certain militia rank. At least then ranks have a purpose.

(Meditril) #70

How about these change propsals:
Small change proposals to Faction Warfare missions

(Lord Harrowmont) #71

I am new to FW and find it quite active, never pressed to find content. Maybe work on your scouting abilities.

(WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame) #72

the problem with FW is not in its mechanics. it’s how it’s treated. the reason why every proposed change to fw mechanics failed; the system itself is a result of poor treatment, it is perceived by many as obsolete. the first step to fixing it is a cultural shift. it must be looked at from a different angle.

take for example an event from recent years, when suitonia joined amarr and lit a fire in Dal. it was a very entertaining event and players from various groups rushed to Dal to grab a piece of the action pie. anyone not outside of that warzone at the time who didn’t take part in this event was simply not interested in pvp.

EVE is a game made by its players; it’s the culture that needs changing, not the system.

here’s what i’m pitching:

  • implement means to bridge gaps between groups within any one militia such as corp and alliance listings and bulletin boards, inside the FW info panel in the game. make it easier to communicate and coordinate.
  • Implement new mechanics to allow corps and alliances to be more engaged and influencial within their respective militias. this will lead to a change in how politics work in FW as well.
  • allow for and accomodate changes in culture, rather than changing fundamental mechanics of the system in any extent.

maybe then we can put more emphasis on the warfare part.

(Oreb Wing) #73

You suggesting a platform that has more continuity than the default chat system? An in-game forum or message board/leaderboard? Aside from forums like these? It could be interesting, and painful.

I can’t agree with you on not wanting a better tier and reward system though. Mechanics drive the meta and politics.

(erg cz) #74

Even if CCP just remove the rule, that only entire corp or even alliance can join the FW, it will bring more life into war zone. If some one wants to join FW but his corp does not, he should be able to do so as individual.

(Nevyn Auscent) #75

They can. Just not in their corp. It would get far too confusing otherwise.

(HazeInADaze) #76

When militia pilots kill other militia pilots or capture outposts, the faction which lost a pilot/outpost should put an LP bounty on the winning pilot.

Sites should be competitive, encouraging new pilots to join the losing side so they have a higher rate of combat in sites. If you take an outpost without a challenger, little to no LP. This will make pilots seek the hot systems.

Ship limits on sites. Have some sites that are 1v1, 2v2, 5v5. This will encourage more small gang and solo without the dominate faction just blobing.

5v5 King of the Hill sites. Logi is now almost manditory. Every win increases reward and increases the reward for killing you.

Campaigns. The militia issue demands for certain system captures and defenses for huge pay-offs. This will draw militia pilots into a small area and coordinate to take the big prize.

I could go on with more terrible ideas, but I have work to do.

(Oreb Wing) #77

We have to refrain from making rewards which are easily gamed. A 1v1 site can be filled with a pilot and an enemy alt, the same with group content, unless you instance these matches in some kind of queue, which would almost take place out of the universe and therefore be out of character to the theme of persistent content.

I’ve seen plenty of gangs that don’t have logi. I’ve also seen plenty of confrontations in which dps is split enough to throw off a bad logi team. You have a lot of options to counter logi. Most still don’t fit counters to ewar. But, imo, Amarr and Caldari cruiser logi still need to lose a high slot. They should have to choose between full cap chaining (up and down) or full repping power and not be able to do both to where they can cap chain and STILL provide near equal repping power as the other logi cruisers.

(shaun 27) #78

Like the idea about planetside 2 style fw system this could work if you focus the engagement to 1 or 3 systems depending on numbers.

1 staging system for each race which has titan ready to jump you straight into active engagement zones.

(Aadris) #79

Aside from my idea on a new area of space exclusively for small gang PvP here… Privateer Space

How to improve FW:

  • Drastically reduce the number of FW systems to concentrate players (the majority of FW space empty.) Having a “front line” where only a small number of systems can be capped / fought over would work. The number of “active” systems could be scaled according to number of truly active players in FW (people getting PvP kills, being killed, not just running missions or orbiting beacons in a stabbed ship).

  • Encourage actual PvP combat by increasing rewards for killing members of the enemy faction. Right now blowing up another player gives a pathetically tiny amount of LP compared to orbiting a beacon in space for 15 mins to cap a point. We’re talking 1500LP for a player kill that requires time, skill, a lot of risk and effort vs 15,000LP for doing basically nothing for 15 mins. Hence bots. Players vs Player content should not be completable by a bot lol! FW should involve actual PvP only, not consant beacon orbiting or FW missions which are mostly done by people that totally avoid all PvP.

  • Limit the number of ships in (some) plexes to stop blobbing and encourage small gangs to form and fight each other on relatively equal terms. Wormholes do it, Abyssal 1v1’s do it, FW needs it (some plexes can be free-for-alls).

  • Remove pirate and faction frigs from Novice plexes - they’re insanely better than T1 frigs and it sucks for new players that spend most of their time in a Rifter being hunted by Navy Comets.

  • All players entering a FW plex should be tagged as suspect immediately. Pirates warp into a “War zone” to kill militia players if the militia member shoots first they lose security status! If you willingly enter a war zone as a random neutral then you’re fair game.

  • Give some proportion of the rewards from FW in isk, so people can replace stuff without being forced to slowly turnaround items using LP stores, which is boring and laborious, and again sucks for new players. Missions do this with cash rewards and NPC bounties.

  • The current LP reward multipliers are hilariously bad, especially because you can simply join the side that is already winning with no penalty. I understand the need to reward the side doing well, but decreasing rewards for the losing side by 50%? Why would any player concerned at all about isk / LP or trying to actually fund themselves in FW from the rewards, consider joining a losing side?

  • Get rid of standings requirements for joining FW. Empires should take anyone that wants to fight for them (think French Foreign Legion). Maybe players with low standing could get lower rewards until their debt is “paid off” and standings increase?

  • Remove defensive plexes, if you don’t want to PvP that’s fine, but don’t be in Factional Warfare.

(WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame) #80

this is due to the highly exploitable state FW was in years ago, where you could farm tons of LP by having 2 alts in opposing militias and pitting them against eachother. it was so stupid, goons farmed it like mad forcing CCP to fix it by dramatically reducing the LP pay from kills.
and besides, if you want LP, the current meta is to farm missions.

now you’re talking about fairness. in a game where the meta is to overwhelm and outnumber the opposition, giving no chance of winning.
yeah, good luck with that.

pirate yes. navy no.

I don’t think you really understand why those sites are there… or what they’re for…

(erg cz) #81

Which will remove the solo PvP from FW. Only gangs will fight for very few plexes left over there.

Yes, but only if those fights are not slaughtering your own alt over and over again.

+1 More PLEX types can be interesting. It can somewhat compensate danger of solo-combat eviction I mentioned before.

+1 Same comment as one before.

Only fro pirates. Militia members should not be punished for entering FW. What if you are in high sec few minutes after you was killed in PLEX?

Arguable. FW LP store items prices will get a hit. Vexor Navy prices will go up, Nexus chip prices go down. Not good for some people outside FW.

Because you go to low sec to get fights, have fun, lose ISK, not make them. At least that was how it was working for me. Make ISK in stressless environment, spend them in fun places like FW.

+1 Yes. It was my suggestion as well.

Why? Bots will just move to offensive plexes…

(Aadris) #82

This could be fixed by something like giving rapidly diminishing LP returns for killing the same pilots, or some other more elegant solution, instead of tying rewards for a “PvP” activity based semi afk on beacon orbiting. The fix they came up with allows bots to farm FW instead and is basically non interactive unless another player turns up, not great.

This makes zero sense and is completely muddleheaded. CCP can build the game anyway they want. The Meta is just the way players play the game within the current structure created by the devs - the devs control that structure. They can decide if the meta is bad for the game or change it anytime to encourage other ways of playing and improve the game, and do this literally all the time. During the nano period the “meta” was Nanophoons going 4k/s and Vagabonds doing 16k/s - the devs killed it with fire.

How does the blobbing “meta” effect Abyssal 1v1s for instance? It doesn’t - game mechanics don’t allow it. My guess is people would engage in PvP far more if they had a way of doing it that leads to more equal fights.

The plexes are called “Novice” for a reason. The Comet and Hookbill are up there with pirate frigs. Not sure why everyone is so desperate to be able to kill noobs in T1 frigs in drastically better ships?

I have been in FW a while and know exactly how they work. Yes, removing d-plexes would mean totally changing the current capture mechanics, not a minor change and a divergence from the title of this thread, but good riddance!

Not if there are 1v1 or 2v2 plexes etc.

Of course, goes without saying.

Noo, the market doesn’t work like that, giving less LP as a reward will increase prices of LP store items if anything, not reduce them. Although the amount of FW LP given out in the game is probably so tiny compared to all the other sources I wouldn’t expect it to make a dent honestly. Also worrying about the price of a single ship like the VNI is way too minor a concern for CCP (it has a real market economy for a reason), and they have made balance changes that drastically change the prices of certain ships / items many many times before.

That’s fine, I don’t think FW should be particularly profitable, but maybe if you can keep yourself flying in cheapo T1 ships if you’re a decent pilot then that’s all good. I hate this sense that PvP is supposed to be some sort of luxury you can only engage in after you’re done grinding isk in some other more boring part of the game though, it’s weird, and other games don’t do this. The meaningful high risk PvP in Eve could be a major selling point for more people, but only a tiny percentage of the playerbase want to do it because of the huge threat of just being blobbed to death in some unfun fight. A better balance could be struck. FW should allow people to shoot each other, and blow up more ships / modules for industrialist / miners to build, without being an absolute isk sink. If you look at the economic reports only a third of ships manufactured ever get blown up!

The point of this particular suggestion is to encourage more players to join FW, right now anyone that’s new and / or is concerned with making isk won’t join Amarr or Caldari if they understand how the mechanics work. The low numbers on these two sides make it boring for everyone. I joined Cal because I’m rich / old / unconcerned with making isk at all and I thought there’d be loads of enemy militia to shoot, but it’s basically dead as a doornail. Almost no one is bothering.

Think bigger… like reworking the mechanics completely so plexes involve mostly fighting / holding off other players, and when they’re not around, something more dynamic that bots can’t easily handle.