Indeed. As well as different sigs and anomalies have different lifespans as well.
(The point I was trying to make to the other guy)
“Do you want to create a new folder now?”
Did you create a new folder?
Of course not. I do not need a new folder. I need a new bookmark in my personal folder that is already there.
In my personal folder there are 18 sub-folders out of which only 1 has more than 3000 bookmarks. Which is why I do not understand why I cannot create new bookmarks. 
Or rather… I do understand it and it is as I described above: This new system is not viable. It is not an improvement. It is not making things better. It is just making things worse.
Ok, I understand that this is confusing you so lets explain again:
- You can have up to 30 folders (shared or personal)
- Each folder can have up to 3000 bookmarks (30x3k = 90k)
- Each folder can have many sub-folders
- There is no limit to the amount of bookmarks in a subfolder (other than the total limit for its parent folder)
- Of your 30 folders, you can have up to 5 personal visible at any time (15k bms visible)
So yes, the new system will take some adjustment, some of your subfolders may need to be moved into their own folders, your sub-folder with over 3k bookmarks will need to be split up. But you can have way more bookmarks in total with a bit more organization.
And that is why it is worse. I am not going to set folders active or inactive depending on where I go. I need my bookmarks to be visible wherever I go. I do not want to right click a folder every time I go into high sec or low sec or null sec just because I cannot have more than 5 folders visible in space.
That is only true on your paper. In reality, I have to manage even more things that should not require management. These things ought to just work. They won’t after this update.
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I think we’re still crossing wires here. You can have all 13,000 of your current personal bookmarks visible at once PLUS 2000 more
No, we are not. You just don’t understand what I am talking about. Let me give you an example.
I can have 5 active folders. As far as I understand it these bookmarks are visible in space while inactive folders are not. I just tested it on Duality, so I got this right.
Right now my null sec spots sub-folder is over capacity. That means I have to have a null sec folder (not sub) for safe spots and one for gate spots. That’s already 2 folders. Then I have a mandatory folder with docking spots. Then I need 1 more folder for these aforementioned special gate spots with sub folders for the gates. That is 4 folders.
Now I have only 1 folders left in your 5-limit for other things. But I have 18 sub-folders at the moment that I regularly use. High sec spots, low sec spots. Wormholes. Exploration sites. Structures, Camping spots on gates and stations and so on. Now, let’s assume I found a nice wormhole route. I put the bookmarks into the respective folder. But which other folder do I turn off in order to see the wormhole bookmarks folder?
I WILL see fewer bookmarks because I CAN ONLY have 5 folders active. And I WILL have to turn folders on and off all the time.
And I am on the low end with my bookmarks.
This is fundamentally flawed. This is not acceptable. At all.
Something else non-obvious about w-space and expired sig bookmarks: you now have a bookmark to empty space… a safe-spot. If you’re active in particular systems long enough, you can get some real beauties.
There are a lot of subtleties of living in w-space that you don’t learn and sometimes can’t understand from living elsewhere. That is a huge reason why whenever CCP touches something, we’re usually a casualty of war.
On a different note: I use bookmarks now as sort of notes to put prices for items in containers with these items. Can we please have a replacement for that. Or voucher Notes items so that we can keep that functionality?
My recommendation for you here would be to keep your current subfolder organization, but break up your folders into super-regions. So you would for example have a folder for high sec, one for low sec, one for northern null sec, one for southern, etc. If you truly have so many you can’t fit them all in 5 personal folders you will need to turn them on and off, but you shouldn’t need to cycle them frequently. You don’t need your Delve bookmarks active while you’re in Cloud Ring.
That is not what I want to do at all. This means more work for absolutely no improved or added positive gameplay experience.
Ok thanks for the specific example @Zhalyd_Lyehin, it makes it much clearer what your concerns are.
I’m assuming that many of your sub-folders (other than your huge null-sec one contain much less than 3000 bookmarks? If so you could certainly put many of these sub folders into one single main folder, perhaps called “General” or “Safes” or whatever organizational methodology make sense to you.
Hope this helps
While yes, most of them have fewer than the limit, it would mean a less organized right click menu. It does not help.
I want this system to behave exactly like the current system. Because the current system is convenient, it is efficient and it works better than what is being proposed here.
This is a long way from your previous statements that the system is “not viable”, “not sustainable”, “fundamentally flawed”, “requiring people to delete things”.
I’ve been open about the fact that these changes will take some adjustment, but I’ve no doubt you’ll be able to develop an efficient organization system once this is released.
Never the less, thanks for your feedback. I’ll raise this with the team and see if there’s anything we can do to address your concerns.
That depends on your perspective, I would say. That team burdens me with more work to find workarounds around this new system to make it work for me. I have to put more effort into making it work somehow. In my opinion this shift of burden from the developers to the players to make a bad system work is “fundamentally flawed”, “not viable”, “not sustainable”. And it requires people to delete things, namely their perfectly fine working system they have come up with already. And for what? Just so that a poorly thought through new system can be made to work.
I already have an efficient system. It has been in place for 7 years now. This change will ruin this efficient system so that this new mechanic can be made to work at all.
Thanks for that.
As an olive branch and improvement suggestion: I can live with the limit of 3k bookmarks limit per folder. What makes this limit an issue is the limit of 5 active folders. If that limit was not there, the whole system would be a lot less troublesome.
From the sound of things, this isn’t what happens under the new system.
Is there a possiblity for a future addition that would allow this? I pick a folder … maybe put a “Star” next to a folder or whatever … and that folder and its contents are always shown in space, regardless of the system?
When we get out of W-space after an operation or for logistics or whatever and we want to head to a trade hub (or perhaps nullsec when they get to hisec and want to go to Jita), it would be much easier to use a sticky “Trade Hub” folder rather than open extra windows.
Oh, boi.
I hope this goes better than the introduction of the new chat system…
No, we’re Collateral Damage… Get it right 
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Not being able to sell escalation bookmarks sounds like a major regression to me. If you have to be online and/or fleet warp to the escalation, that is going to result in a lot more work and a lot more people getting scammed.
Garth
My thoughts on this :
ACLs are not something your average player works or interacts with.
Because of this you are creating a rather huge stumbling block that people are not going to like.
I imagine it’s going to go something like “This is great! only if someone else gets to figure it out”.
Some built in system default ACLs would be nice (one Default ACL per line) :
- SELF (just has me on it)
- CORP (Just my corp, no one else)
- CORP Leadership (Directors and CEO)
- ALLIANCE
- ALLIANCE Leadership (Directors and CEO)
- [Everyone]
Having these default / generic ACLs would go a long way to smoothing out this transition.
Also a UI/UX improvement on the ACLs window: something that differentiates ACLs that I own/originate and ones that were shared to me.
@All - As for what actually happened when i logged into Duality and opened my bookmarks folder:
All my existing personal bookmarks were in a “[First Tier] Personal Folder”. All my sub folder on live were inside. I was able to create 4 additional “[First Tier] Personal Folders” as expected.
Corp Bookmarks are a shared folder with me. The layout is a similar fashion and took up one of the shared folder slots.
The Bad:
So effectively you only really have one or no active shared folders, depending.
I see myself having one shared folder for Corp, one used by the Alliance, and one for the Coalition/Region/Blues/etc. This, IMO is the critical failure of this change. Sure you can sit there and jitter between active shared folders back and forth. However you make the user do too much useless clicking just to get something simple that they want, it’ll end badly.
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