yes shares can easily be turned in to a link just like any other item, system, overview, fit, chat chl, etc
we the players need the functionality to sell eskalations trugh contracts… just make an x-tra eskalations folder where each bookmark access is granulary granted trugh contracts for 24h without any further owner interactions even if you are offline and thrugh contracting
i and a lot of players dont care is it hard to implement, its the actual gameplay*
the ability to sell eskalations to everyone after your ratting session or your collecting turn truigh the space is daliy playerinteraction, is providing contend, is making player networks, is making the space living and breathing and give more options how to play eve for everyone
dont put rocks in our way because its more easy for you… find a way!
oh and yes 5 shared folders arent enough corp/alliance/coalition/fleet/alts/temporarly friends/spais/third party transport logistic/random use i see 8-10 folders as a good number
I think a straw-poll would find that most players aren’t concerned with selling escalations - try ‘we, a small proportion of the the players, would like’ instead.
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Regarding selling escalations: It seems like we would need to create a whole extra feature to support selling escalations separately, which would be too much work, given that selling escalations is only used by a small group of players. Furthermore: trading escalations is a feature, which was very likely not intended originally, and we are not making it impossible to share escalations - just less convenient for selling / less secure.
I am still interested in ideas on how to improve the experience, without having to add an extra feature (which would very likely not be approved internally).
Is the ability to mark the folders as inactive not good enough for your uses? Why?
Dear CCP_Habakuk,
For starters, your lack of fundamentally understanding how widespread the use of escalation bookmarks is, I find particularly distressing. The vast MAJORITY of escalations is not done by the original finder, but by others. your cavalier attitude expressed in “which would be too much work” is the express reason why CCP just lost over 20% of its base with its BO and Cyno changes. Your statement, coming from both a DEV, and a SCAA, leaves me astounded by the answer given. As for myself, a CEO for over 35 years in real life, whom started as a programmer analyst, had I given such an answer before I became CEO, I would have been fired on the spot. As a CEO, I also, would do the same. HTFU, buckle up, and get back to work in making this game viable, and most of all, FUN. Each time you choose the lowest fruit (on the ground, rotting) you fail us your consumers. Do the impossible, it only takes a bit longer and thinking outside of the box. If I could do it 35+ years ago, you certainly can do it 1000x easier today. Git Er Done.
CCP_Habakuk if you do not understand how selling escalation works and who buys them why collapse the escalation market with sush improvement?
do you realize that this is not rare and people from time to time sell escalations i.e because they are too far or in too dangerous area or simply are lazy to run them. do you know how many people actually got escalations daily and how many of them sold them off or gave them away or done themselves or simply abandoned them?
how feature approval internally is handled basically?? is it calculated how many people going to use these features and how many people gonna buy plex after this feature was added?
please refrain from making features that are based on monetization because this how people are leaving. by taking away selling escalations in current state you arent doing anything good.
i would do the escalation selling much more easy by making a escalation container and once you open it you get auto-inserted escalation location in agency window that cannot be traded after opening ,if you dont open box you can sell it to someone,someone opens it and do the escalation,the box would have escalation expiry time so 24hours so you have time to sell the box and buyer have still time to open the box and run escalation.
Is the ability to mark the folders as inactive not good enough for your uses? Why?
no its not because we dont want to manage folder permissions all day long?
we want to fly ships and enjoy the beautyfull game (you want also us to do so)
not to spend time in windows managing permissions to work arround some limitations
a new bookmarksystem should be better and easier to use and give more abilities and usecases to cover as the old one and have room for the future
you asked about feedback… there it is…
you give us finaly the ability to create aliance and coalition folders. a thing players asked for for a long time now…clearly we will finaly get it and use it
you say the corporation ist the strongest bond in the game and it should be come first over aliiances and other groups. well… even stronger is the bond with your owne altchars you can trust 100% and use in some manner you dont want to show others, is it for your personel security reasons or you dont want to bother others all day long.
even corporations dont want everyone to have permission to use all bookmarks (or mails or contracts or structures)
so… to share the bookmarks with our owne out of corp alts alone thats with corp, aliiance and coalition folders together alone 4 dalie used folders
where you dont want to change permissions every day, think about gatechains, coalition stagings, wh entrances, instadock and warpouts, tactical pings arrount structures that alone are bookmarks you want to administrate on different levels and use and see on different levels of player/char groups and not switch on/of every day
along with the ability to (finaly also) use fleet folders now thats alone 5 folders
also there are npsi groups where people who are in coalitions fly with… adds up to 6
and now we think further away and see the need for your eskalations/selled WH/spai bookmarks/mission looter or gys you dont realy thrust or dont have to have all other bookmarks
but you still will need all other groups folders active for the dalie use and not switching permissions every 5min
thats alone at least 7 in total and i would realy like to have at least 1-2 spare for future usecases i dont see or can think of now
(oh just a quick edit: i see at least one additional usecase: thats for third party fights sharing some stuff between an arriving new group of players who arent part of all called groups above… and we are at 8 needet folder groups you dont want to play permission games in a hot fight and dont want to switch off other permissions)
besides all others i write here and some harsh words from me or others i would realy like to see you think about all the points player call out here even from the postings above
to the points about selling escalations and a “small group of players” points you make… you wasnt in a active nullsec alliance with some ratters arround?
i alone ratted for few hours and sold 4-6 eskaltions on a dalie basis to different people who arent in my timezone… sure thats only one player per day and 2-3 customers maybee for 2days the week
even sometimes a same timesone player who have a spare hour till he have to took the girlfriend from disco just took a handfull of eskalations and quickly fly it
its maybee not many but its player interaction! its dalie use… its isk flow between players… its making bonds between them… its shifting your eskalations you cant fly with cour capital or want to fly because you are tired or have to do other important stuff to an other player who have the ships, the organisation to move them, the time, the knowlege, the mindset to take the risk vs reward…
the only realy point i believe in your answer is the part “wich would be too much work”
i would even believe in a answer about its to many serverload to use this many folders…
if this is all it holds back to give some quality of life features players ask for a long tima and not taking away abilities and functionality who is right now in the game, take a step back and do it right from the beginning
realy think about what your customer need and what we the players allways do with tools you give us… we will brake it… …we will use it in more extend as you expected… we will use it in alle possible ways you might underestimated the usecase right now…
if you and we see some issues in scallability and limtitations right now before its even on TQ better build it rocksolid from the start and take your time to do it right
pls CCP
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Okay. A few things from this
1: people need to learn to ■■■■■■■ read.
2: people should inject Reading comprehension skills.
3: get online and test the stuff. Then bitch please.
Edit: having logged in and doing limited testing
4: CCP is it possible to make it so we have move sub-folders between folders?
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To provide some clarification on this point, we absolutely understand that escalation trading is common among the people who run content that provides escalations. The point Habakuk was making was that escalations amount to a very small fraction of content run by the playerbase at large. As such, while its super unfortunate that the emergent gameplay of trading escalations will be negatively impacted by the changes detailed here, we have currently taken the choice not to delay/cancel the feature or significantly increase its scope due to this, as the other benefits it provides outweigh the negatives.
Again, we understand that for your specific situation, this may not be the case (i.e Trading escalations may be more important to you than improved sharing functionality) and for that we apologize.
Dear CCP_Lebowski. We understand but your decisions are causing harm to us playerbase,please rethink them because you are about to ruin it to oblivion. stay away from escalation trading if you dont have proper solution,taking it away entirely will force players to ignore them comletly. killing this game with these unhealthy game changes. we agree the bookmark system need rework but DONT REMOVE trading escalations… you can do it better by
turning escalation from bookmark to item-wise,lets say a escalation dropbox that will contain escalation,you can either open it and get location of escalation or you sell the box to someone who will open it and run the escalation.
taking trading escalations away wont make anything good and frustration will increase. please stop soaping our eyes.
please make a new share folder option.
“Hide Creator to low access level”
the old bookmark vouchers work as creator laundering.
i hope to hide my private scanner alts when share bookmarks with untrustable temp blues.
only View, View and Use, except Admin, i have no idea of suitable limit level because of replicable to other folders.
Please, now that you overhauling the Bookmark System, give us the OPTION to disable the BLUE DOTS independantly around the HUD.
Right now, you can only have the Bookmarks not shown in Space AND around the HUD or just have them not shown in Space, but still around the HUD.
I want to see 100 Bookmarks in space around a gate… but get rid of the BLUE DOTS (if possible ALL DOTS) around my HUD. A simple option to implement i hope…thanks.
maybe i havent tested enough but if im correct then the bookmarks, past a certain number of them, will collaspe the personal and sharable folder correct? i would hate to have so much clutter on my screen at once every time i right click
This is for the context menu, when right-clicking in space? I am aware that the current solution is not yet perfect (the list grows quite long, if you have many folders), and we will for sure improve this aspect (but I am not 100% sure yet on the details).
Is this saying that in the new system our personal bookmarks will not be shareable? Only corp bookmarks can be shared?
From the above discussion, it seems pretty clear that escalation BM trading will be impossible. So does that mean that if I use a scanner alt then they will need to be in the same corp as me? I think that using NPC corp scanner alts is common practice. Yet nobody is raging against the removal of that capability, so I think I might be confused.
Personal bookmarks are not shareable, but you can create a shared bookmark folder, where only you and your alts have access.
If you can do as you say, then it seems like escalations could be sold using a folder sharing mechanic. Am I missing something?
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you cant sell access to that folder without having to be online to grant access to the person who bought it. Same issue with the puzzle hunt (which probably affects even less people, but more important to me personally).
Based on what I saw on Duality today, the feature that we should be asking for is some way to turn a page from our Neocom notepad into a physical item. Since you can create a folder that everybody can access, all you need to do is provide the link to that folder (somehow). I can’t think of any way to drag and drop the link into a contract… but that would solve the problem everybody is complaining about - we don’t need the bookmarks to be physical items, we just need to somehow make the links to the shared bookmark folders physical.
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I’d think we’re missing one important folder with shareable bookmarks. I’d call it Bookmarks Exchange Folder which is needed exclusively to send out a bookmark to another entity, be that person, corp or alliance.
What details it could have? Make it possible to Create Contract for a bookmark by right click on it in People and Places window. Contracts could use usual contracts terms and options but no operating with bookmark like item.
Player1 creates contract for bookmark, Player2 buys it but bookmark received goes in the Exchange Folder. It would function like Item Deliviery on upwell structures (where you can only receive the item) but functions just like it is long transition from one to another bookmark folder.