show me where in game this module and role is used where its not hostile…
please.
He is either a very skilled troll, or just one of those guys that just craps on every idea and must have the last word. Either way, the arguments will just keep going in circles and never end.
I think I understand some of your concerns. There should be a way for more meaningful pvp between gankers and high sec dwellers, and that scanning is free intel. If the devs were to even consider anything in this discussion, at least there are some good ideas here to look over:
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Scanning ships cause suspect flag - more high sec pvp and content.
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Scan blocking mod - not necessarily more pvp, but maybe some gank baiting fun.
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Fix broken high sec - even more content and pvp.
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Maybe devs will surprise us all with new high sec game mechanics that none of us thought of and will be fun for all - could happen…
Well, to be fair cargo scan modules are probably activated more times per day by explorers checking the contents of cans than by the handful of highsec pirates left in the game.
A threshold of ‘hostile’ is not sufficient to add a suspect flag or practically everything you do would make you go suspect in this game. What is the use of combat probes? Or ship scanning? Or using the ‘look at’ button to visually determine the fit of an opponent you want to shoot?
These are just intel tools that allow you to size up a potential opponent. No more, no less. You may have dark intentions, or perhaps you are some strange altruist who likes to sit on the undock and warn new players they are undocking with too much cargo to help them avoid being ganked. Regardless, you haven’t done any harm to the ship you scanned, and even if you have a ‘hostile’ intention in the back of your mind, this is a competitive PvP space combat game where that is completely intended and desired behaviour.
We are suppose to be hostile to each other. We are competing for limited resources and power in this shared sandbox game. CONCORD is not there to protect you, but to punish and impose a cost on attacking other players, and is definitely not there to deter “hostile” intentions, something otherwise known as creating content in a player-driven game like Eve.
Again, cargo scanning is not free intel. It takes time and active effort, and requires modules with costs, both in resources and in fitting. It has counters and gameplay around it already. It works fine as a mechanic, and while I am not averse to adding more gameplay around scanning/smuggling/piracy via new modules to hide goods and new scanners to counter those modules, the system already works as is.
I will though agree that it would be very nice for CCP to engineer a system that allows more meaningful PvP between criminals, highsec residents, and bounty hunters/vigilantes. It’s a pretty tough game design nut to crack to allow space for such meaningful conflict while maintaining a sufficient level of safety for your average highsec dweller. But I’d love CCP to spend the effort to try again with a CrimeWatch 3.0 and create something compelling and better than the status quo.
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And npc’s, and exploration containers.
You’re assuming it was designed to enable combat. I can’t see where that happened.
It was most likely made in conjunction with scanners in general, for scanning in general. In a pvp game you could expect it to sometimes lead to pvp. But that wasn’t the inspiration behind the idea. Unless you can show me where it says it was.
It’s kind of like how ventures get warp core strength bonus but there are also warp core stabs that can be fit by any ship with enough resources.
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Giving people choices like this is some good ol’ risk reward philosophy. I like it even more for the fact that using such a mod is a double edged sword not only because of sacrificing capacity tank or speed but also may suggest to someone that you may be carrying something worth attacking you for.
I considered something that reduces accuracy of scans but it just becomes rng and it’s not hard to scan something multiple times…
Something that just blocks scans is a lot more elegant.
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Except in fleet (and maybe corp) a jettison can remains the property of the owner. (hence can flipping). You will get a supect timere for emptying a can. But you can see inside the can. So yes it becomes viewable by the public.
Yes, I know. It’s called shoveling, a subtle form of trolling. But your post is better than most IMHO. ;D
Plus 5 gold stars.
It can obviously be used in non-hostile situations, but that’s irrelevant. Even if it were only used with “hostile” intentions it wold still make no difference, because the fact is that what causes a pilot to be flagged suspect is not his “hostility”, but whether he did some actual harm or not.
That’s what you keep being unable to understand, that the suspect timer is NOT about being “hostile”. It’s about damaging, harming or adversely affecting someone’s assets in some way, and the scanners simply do not. So saying this module is always used with “hostile” intentions, even if it was true, by itself is still NOT a reason to warrant a suspect timer…
If you knew a little more about this game, you’d be able to see the difference between crapping on every idea and the idea itself being crap and based on wrong assumptions about how things are or should be…
Not sure what you mean. The warp strength bonus that some ships have just gives them a higher resistance to being scrambled, doesn’t give them any special ability.
This is not the same as unique abilities some ships have, like immunity to cargo scanners for Blockade runners, Bastion for Marauders, Fleet Assistance for Battlecruisers and a few others, and so on…
You would have a point if there was a ship immune to being scrambled and also a module that could accomplish the same, but that’s not the case.
And again, I’m not saying I’m against such a mod, just saying don’t be surprised if it never happens and explaining why.
I see what you’re saying that it is not free intel. But I worded it poorly for expediency, and also see the opposing argument as well. That it is essentially free pvp intel in the sense that there is no risk, since scanning is usually done from a neutral alt in a cheap ship. But I also see that if the idea is not implemented, it’s not going to break the game, as people are getting by as is. I just see it as a symptom in the overall picture that high sec is broken.
I 100% agree about your thoughts on high sec. The devs did a good job of bringing danger to high sec. I don’t always agree with the methods of gankers, but I cannot dispute that they make EVE a more interesting and lively place. I have played many games that are EVE-like, but always at the “endgame” something is missing, cause you get to basically godmode and there is no more challenge. But in EVE, you can get to “endgame” high sec ships like marauders and freighters(jump?), but there will always be danger as the ganking community will always be there if you slip up, and you will, to knock you down a few pegs. High sec is ALMOST there in terms of working, it just needs a few tweaks that won’t disappoint gankers, and still be able to allow fun for everyone.
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Agreed. EVE seems to prefer to have the defender make sometimes hard choices on what to fit. And even though there is double wrapping, the mod is more convenient to use. Plus if it blocks fitting scans, there could also be baiting games for ships that may or may not be bling fit. We’ll just have to wait and see if the devs pick this or the other idea, or if any at all.
Indeed, it’s an interesting mechanic, maybe to act out situations like if a ship throws something overboard into the water and another ship comes along and misinterprets that it’s trash and tries to scoop it, there is going to be an argument. How far away does the ship owner have to sail from it to be considered trash? Zero km? 5km? Both sides would have good arguements for and against. And who gets to keep it would probably end up being the more aggressive or stronger of the two captains. And EVE plays out this drama well.
Thanks, but you had the initiative to start this dialogue. It’s a great contribution to trying to make EVE better. And there are good arguments on both sides. Hopefully the devs do implement this or something that makes more content and fun for all parties.
Since I have no problem with going suspect and my enemies are all cowards I have no problem with them getting locked out of using this module.
Will also be nice for going suspect at will for baiting since it is sometimes anoyong to search for a wreck.
The idea is not stupid, because it just makes it more difficult for gankers. Fitting ecm reduces tank, avoiding major trade hubs its rediculous, targetting incoming ship is nigh impossible because of freighter lock times.
So what you have is a whale hunt. Slow moving defenseless targets that can be overwhelmed at your choosing. I see you game. Now when you may see the shift slightly in the “whales” favour you protest. Perhaps you will you should start thinking of new hunting grounds, reskilling or protection.
Essentially change is hard to hear because it threatens the way you currently exploit the game for profit. Why else would you be so upset about a module that does nothing nothing hostile?
The hostile intent is the revealing of privacy. To reveal the privacy of your ship, i would have to put enough lead into it to make it a wreck, or you would have to jettison the contents.
The game constantly evolves, you should too.
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That’s exactly one of the reasons that makes it a bad idea, that it’s motivated by wanting game mechanics to be changed in your favour by supposedly making things harder for the gankers and easier for you. Everything else to try to justify the change are obviously just excuses and afterthoughts, and poorly thought at that, just like the proposal itself.
Wanting game mechanics to be changed in your favour is not a valid reason to change them at all.
What makes the idea stupid is thinking it would actually accomplish what you want. It wouldn’t work the way you think. Even if the change was made, the gankers would just adapt, you wouldn’t be able to engage that scanner unless he doesn’t care or he’s actually baiting and wants you to do so. And you cannot see this because you don’t even understand the game mechanics you want to change in the first place…
And when you see it doesn’t work as expected and whales keep being hunted and ganked exactly the same, you or someone else will come back asking for more changes in your favour…
What? ECM is useless for protecting yourself from being suicide ganked, but it doesn’t reduce your tank in any way. What do you mean?
So what? Has anybody suggested you to do that?
LOL, what? Who cares how long it takes for a freighter to lock a target?
Yes, exactly. This the only thing you’ve said in the post I’m replying to that makes sense. So what? Do you know what EVE is about?
LOL, you see what? Do you have the slightest idea what I do in game?
I protest when I see anyone wanting the game mechanics be changed in their favour, be they gankers or anti-gankers, and it annoys me especially when the proponents of the changes show total ignorance about game design and mechanics, and an unwillingness to learn…
ROFL, what? WTF are you talking about?
No, it’s learning what the game is about and how to properly play it what seems to be so hard for players like you…
Well thought change proposals to improve the game are welcome. Poorly thought changes aimed at making things harder for others and easier for you are not.
I bet even though I’ve already explained it here again, you’re still going to not get it…
So what? Where have I said it’s not? Have you read anything I’ve said in so many posts in this thread?
I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. EDIT: Oh wait, I do now. Are you saying the scanning mods shouldn’t even exist?
Of course it evolves and everyone has to adapt, so what? That it evolves is not a reason to want it evolve in your favour… It’s you, not me, who is showing an unwillingness to adapt to the game and wanting the game to adapt to your wrong expectations instead…
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Actually gives absolutely no benefit to the people getting scanned by a ship that is tanky or without weapon slots (freighters) so this is a false beginning statement. It does give their escort ability to deal with a scanner. So while technically true that it would change game mechanics it doesn’t make things easier for a hauler and really doesn’t change gankers as they intend to die.
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Does this mean you’re going to Suspect flag anyone who looks inside of a Jet Can? They haven’t taken anything out, they’re just looking. But apparently looking too closely is an evil act…
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nobody cares about that stupid strawman you are burning.
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How about adding a module (Scan Reflector, Security Alarm, what ever) that causes a cargo scanning ship to go suspect.
Thus it’s not a free boost, the hauler has to pay for the added benefit.
There’s just not enough ways for the less aggressive playstyles to impact the predators in the game.
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so many trolls, so little time!!! lolz
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