If these ships have drone bays in them, Lore-wise it would make more sense to have Drifter-Designed drones for them too, for compatibility-sake. Non-propulsion Ships with Propulsion Drones doesn’t make much sense. Perhaps the drones could be reverse-engineered with Stats something along the lines of Subverted JVN-UC49 (Omni-Damage, but high Bandwidth and Volume to balance it out and to prevent high number of launched drones).
I still support this idea, even long after Triglavian Ships were released! And really hope to see this one day. Drifter technology has always fascinated me since its release, and would only make sense for Concord or DED to reverse-engineer a captured ship like with the Trigs.
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What if the drifter drones would actually be “tamed” rogue drones?
(Update: some names in the original post have been adjusted, preliminary to the incoming attribute adjustments and longer response I’m currently working on)
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04.03.2020: New Major Update~
I’ve gone through and adjusted a large number of attributes and other things in the main post, reflected in the spreadsheet (which has also been updated to match & prettied up a bit).
The Charyb (frigate) has had its drones removed, and its powergrid and cpu have been reduced significantly: an earlier error saw previously intended skill-bonused values written as the base values. Additionally, cargo has been reduced and signature radius has been increased. The Scylla (Cruiser) has seen similar adjustments, with the addition of a slight reduction in capacitor capacity, and the Argo (Battleship) has had its powergrid and cargo space increased.
Damage has been adjusted for the tech II ammo types for Warp Lances, as well as for Aegis modules. These can be seen most clearly in the updated “calculations” sections in the main post.
Finally, drawing from some fantastic work by a friend (K’aran S’jet), the descriptions for Warp Lances and Aegis modules have been updated with more “realistic” (read: based in real-world science) information on their functions - had a lot of fun writing these ones out~
See the main post for all included changes, as well as calculations in each section
Change List:
ATTRIBUTES
CHARYB (Frigate):
Powergrid: 58.0 MW → 47.0 MW
CPU: 220.0 tf → 168.0 tf
Max velocity: 484.1 m/sec → 457.14 m/sec
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5mBit/sec / 10m3 → n/a
Signature Radius: 28m → 35m
Cargo capacity: 165m3 → 115m3
SCYLLA (Cruiser):
Capacitor Capacity: 2,000 GJ → 1,950 GJ
Capacitor Recharge Time: 415 sec → 514 sec
Max velocity: 229.1 m/sec → 276.18 m/sec
Signature Radius: 110m → 115m
Cargo capacity: 325m3 → 335m3
ARGO (Battleship):
Powergrid: 15,000 MW → 16,000 MW
Cargo capacity: 630m3 → 780m3
WARP LANCES (Turrets):
- Adjusted Damage for Tech II ammo for all turret sizes
- Adjusted Capacitor Usage for Medium and Large turrets
- Adjusted calculations sections for all ships+turrets
AEGIS (Special Module):
- Clarified Damage Bonuses from skills
- Adjusted Damage and Optimal Range for all module sizes
- Implemented Damage Falloff for all module sizes
- Adjusted volume of Aegis firing consumption
- Restored missing “cannot fire in empire space” attribute on spreadsheet
NAMES AND DESCRIPTIONS
- Changed Warp Lance charge type from “Fermion Lens” to “Isogen-5 Matrix”
- Changed Aegis consumption from “Isogen-5 Lattice” to “Isogen-5 Rod”
- Changed all instances of “Hyperwarp Diffuser” to “Aegis”
- Completely redid the descriptions for Warp Lances and Aegis
- Credit to K’aran S’jet for crafting believable physical mechanics for these
Warp Lance Descriptions:
Old (click to expand)
Warp Lances channel the output of independent warp cores into sheared particle conduits which rip into targets in a jagged maelstrom of exotic force. Though formidable under normal operation, these Drifter turrets possess further tremendous potential for rapid firing through controlled overloading - achieved through the practical application of various Sleeper cryotech principles.
Each individual unit achieves movement and rotation through the same motive force its host vessel harness for the purpose of navigation, and hangs suspended above their user’s hull by anchoring their individual warp fields to its own.
New Description:
Warp Lances channel the output of an independent warp core through a conducting, polar-locked Isogen-5 Matrix. The resulting vortex-field output is spooled within the reflector screens of the turret, where a radial burst of partons is then freed from its core spine into this reverse-polar compressed rotational field. These subatomic particles collide violently within the vortex, heating critically and bonding into a dense quark-gluon plasma superfluid pool - which is then shunted outward through a sharp redirection of the reflector screens, forming a narrow, spiraling lance of luminous exotic matter that pierces targets with profound force.Though formidable under normal operation, these Drifter turrets possess additional potential for rapid firing through masterful dissipation of the extreme heat they generate during use - achieved through the practical application of Sleeper cryotech and heat management specializations.
Each unit hangs suspended above its user’s hull by anchoring its independent warp field to its own, and achieves movement and rotation through the use of thunder kites - utilizing the same motive force its host vessel employs for sub-light navigation.
Aegis Descriptions:
Old (click to expand)
The Aegis is a medium slot dual-function defensive and offensive system, commonly recognized as both the “overshield” and doomsday utilized by the Vigilant Tyrannos. While active, the module channels a vessel’s warp core output across its shield emitters to generate a defensive, spatially distorted shell layer, which exponentially concentrates as the field is depleted. Upon reaching its critical point, a resulting signal burst confuses all target locks on or by the ship, and the turbulent critical warp field concentration is spooled into sequenced Isogen-5 Lattices to prime its offensive function: a single-shot, violently sheared warp corridor.
As a consequence of the shell layer’s generation, any low-energy or nanite-based interactions between a ship fitted with this module and an external entity will be completely muted - rendering the host vessel unable to receive or provide any form of remote assistance. Additionally, an Aegis’s draw from a ship’s warp core necessitates a significant cooldown and warp field recalibration period following the discharge of its weapon function.
New Description:
The Aegis is a dual-function system providing both defense and offense, commonly recognized as the overshield and superweapon many Drifter vessels employ. Functionally, the Aegis is essentially an enormous Warp Lance: free partons are radiated into a generated reverse-polar rotational field, reaching a critical point and bonding into quark-gluon plasma which is directed outward toward a target. However, the Aegis exhibits a few key differences.In place of solid-state stabilized Matrixes of mixed material, actively polarized Rods of pure, field-contained Isogen-5 are arranged within a spinal-mounted core, which can be repositioned in order to change the output angle of the weapon - as a vessel is not generally capable of rotating rapidly enough to point at and track a target.
Additionally, a magnitudes-stronger firing output is made possible by externally expressing the polar field, which is conducted directly across the outer hull of the ship itself in a repurposing of its shield emitters. The resulting shroud collects and preserves additional power and momentum from any incoming force - temporarily storing potential energy far beyond its operating vessel‘s capacity - and doubles as a temporarily impermeable defensive layer. At its maximum tolerance point, which is only briefly sustainable, the field is focused into an external point as the Isogen-5 Rod assembly tracks the weapon’s intended target. Partons are then radiated through external emitters into the focus to bond into quark-gluon plasma, which is shunted outward in a spiral lance of unmatched force.
As a consequence of the hull-spun polar field, any low-energy or nanite-based interactions between a ship fitted with this module and an external entity will be completely muted - rendering the host vessel unable to receive or provide any form of remote assistance. Additionally, an Aegis’s draw from a ship’s warp core necessitates a significant cooldown and warp field recalibration period following discharge.
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Hoping, praying and keeping the dream alive, BUMP!!!
I still think the ships+ammo should be labeled T3/4/5 to illustrate just how freaking advanced they are. These are Jove-tech ships and the Drifters have shown zero interest in sharing their technology with those who prove themselves worthy, like the Triglavians.
Even if this would make them phenomenally powerful when compared to other ships, this can be countered by their extreme rarity and the fact that flying around in one means you have now gained the Drifters’ attention.
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Make this happen!
I particularly like the way the ‘superweapon’ works, nice trade off for basically a one shot weapon would really make me think about actually fitting it.
In response to Valiran, it isn’t drifter tech, it’s New Eden’s attempt to recreate such tech, as is with Trigs.
On the current state of the shipline themselves, a few things that still stand out, for good and bad, somewhat ranked in terms of how alarming they are:
Turret tracking is really, really good.
Take, for example T2 Light Disintegrator, with a base 410 tracking. Perfect skills and T1 is 512. People already moan that Kiki’s and Leshaks have insane tracking. The stats you listed for the T2 Light Warp Lance are almost entirely superior to disintegrators, with a mind blowing 664 tracking. Compare that to Neutron blasters on an Enyo, with 37.5% tracking bonus and max skills: 653, with a 1.7km range. Same is true for the entire line-up.
In short, for having decent range, good DPS, it has tracking that puts even bonused blasters to shame.
T2 deals omni damage.
This may be a bit overkill. You already have a ship opponents can’t run from, probably can’t out-rep, and may have a DD up it’s sleeve. Giving people a chance to tank against two damage types, like most weapons, makes fighting them slightly more manageable (sorta). It’s not a deal breaker, but requiring opponents to omni-tank is a bit brutal.
Base capacitor is really generous. Not a big issue, especially if Warp Lances are very cap hungry and shield boosting. They’re still higher that most battleships with very few exceptions (looking you Hyperion).
Cargo capacity for the frigate and cruiser are slightly subpar, which is fine. This limits their ability to carry cap boosters and thus fighting time, which suits their engagement style. The battleship breaks a bit from this for some reason. This also means limited Isogen for repeated DD’ing, which is good.
Concerning the DD overall is still absolutely brutal with very little counterplay, especially in solo engagements such as abyss, WH’s, and FW complexes. Additionally, it gives a built in ability for the drifter ship to flee when the overshield depletes. You remain aligned and it breaks lock and you’re gone. Few suggestions:
Overshield lock-break is an instant lock break with the ability to immediately relock, but either functions like a Spectrum target breaker or as a normal ECM, whichever seems more balanced. I’d personally lean towards Target spectrum so in 1v1, your odds of a free lock break and escape are basically zero (as it should be).
DD is a targeted effect, like titan DDs. This means you can’t DD an orbiting tackle or otherwise any opponent. Only semi-stationary targets can be reasonably engaged. So either you fit for max tackle so you can actually aim it, or it’s reserved for tearing chunks of HP off significantly larger targets. This means a fleet of drifter ships, even frigs, can seriously threaten capitals, not by spool up, but by mass directed DDs. Makes them very dangerous, but not a win-button for solo/small gang fights.
Let me know what you all agree or disagree with. I initially read the DD concept and was very concerned for fighting, but I think that could give them an edge against blobbing and capital proliferation while not being pure death to everything.
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re: tracking on the small lance, that feels like another oversight on my part, I’ll take a look at that and tweak some numbers~
The Omni damage comes from the NPC versions of the drifters more than anything, and though it makes it hard to tank against them fully, it also keeps drifter weapons from being able to fire into a hole - admittedly more affecting their PVE capabilities than PVP - I can look at this more again, too.
As for the DD:
Overshield lockbreak: the whole idea is that it’s indeed already insta-relockable after the break, I do like that spectrum breaker bit & it might be an interesting way to balance it down~
The DD is also intentionally UNABLE to fire in Highsec or the Abyss (I might have failed to clarify that last part in the text - it’s canon-workable too, given that Drifter ships in the abyss are described as not being able to use it either)
Plus, the DD has tracking - so a small tackle orbiting a BS will have a HARD time being hit unless it’s being slowed down or webbed or scrammed, and things should hopefully unfold how you went on to explain more often. (For example, in Drifter Hive fleets, the DD NEVER hits our ships when we properly get orbits on them)
Honestly, it’s hard to approach balance properly at ALL with the DD - I wanted to create a workable, playable version though, so I’ve more thought that making the material requirements to build the modules, along with those needed to build the consumption for them, pretty excessive (in order to make it a hard choice to use one, making it pretty costly etc) - this also plays into the large size of the consumption charges, and the cargoholds of the ships are also geared around that, allowing for exactly TWO firings worth of charges to fit in the base cargo. I went back and tweaked the numbers for the charges and their size to make sure of that, since it was inconsistent between the post and the spreadsheet.
Isogen-5 Rod: 50.0m3
Small Aegis consumption: 1x (50m3)
Frigate cargo: 115m3
Heavy Aegis consumption: 3x (150m3)
Cruiser cargo: 335m3
Pandoric Aegis consumption: 7x (350m3)
Battleship cargo: 780m3
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Bumping because still such a totally awesome thread!!! 
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This post is professionally well-done, and is reflective of the time, effort, and interest put into a subject that a lot of us in the community share: the pre-history of eve. The introduction of the Triglavians as a historically new faction unrelated to the historic 4 ancient races found in the cosmos constellations has dramatically re-ignited the interest in this topic, and I hope to see something like this come out of it with a continuation of additional precursor content and revelation of the history of the second and first jovian empires.
The reluctance of CCP to place a definitive release time on Angel Cartel capitals has me holding out hope that a larger-scale lore release is in the works related to the Angel Cartel and their relationship with jovian tech. Seeing them and possibly SOCT ships reclassified as Precursor ships with related skills may be a possibility as well, but I’m just speculating here.
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With the release of the new EDENCOM ships, I think we can safety say the introduction of drifter ships is not on the horizon. However, it’s possible (likely?) someone at CCP saw this as the EDENCOM ships use almost exactly the damage types (and kina overall function) you were going for. Even having short range omni-damage (!) ammo in addition to kinetic and EM. We’ll learn more when they are finally released.
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Well written, however.
Pointless ship creep.
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I like drifter hulls look and I want them to be piloted but:
-
Doomsday secondary effect. Guarantied Lock break. This is OP as hell. Remove/
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Doomsday damage should be nerfed in player hands. No excuse (cost is NOT viable excuse).
5333 HP alpha for frigates is insane. Most frigates have less.
So is 213333 for BS. One shot ANY sane subcapital.
21333 for cruisers is scary too. Typical passive tanked T1 cruiser is around 25000 -
Triglavian-grade turret tracking. On other words - OP as hell. Again 0\
And so on. OP all the way.
Interceptor grade overheated speed for cruser. 3 minutes of 2400 DPS on BS. Artillery-grade alpha strike.
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Please recreate from scratch
I love it dislike the Doomsday part tho that just seems like you can only have it one of two ways OP or worthless.
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Yeah, I agree - I don’t think there’s any way to actually make a balanced version of the Drifter doomsday - the idea here was to at least lay out a way for it to work just as it does on the NPCs that use it. That said, I’ve mentioned earlier in the thread that making the fuel required for the DD prohibitively rare (i.e. drop rates or limits, or make it need to be built from a blueprint that only drops in limited numbers, etc) moreso than “expensive” (since we all know how Titans went lol)
The DPS and other heated effects, on the other hand, are completely manageable. @Advenat_Bedala the DPS you bring up for the battleship is LESS than an equally DPS fit Vindicator for instance, with close to same range (less, actually, if your vindi is using drones), and it can only sustain this damage while heated, with half the DPS otherwise - all the while needing to keep an eye out and not burn out all of your guns.
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Rare = expencive. Jita still exists.
About DPS.
You’re wrong. Vindicator have 2181 heated DPS on turrets with 4 faction damagemods and T2 Burst Aerator and under 500 on drones (sum 2680).
Compared with 2605 + 140 from drones (2745).
All with better projection and application.
Unheated DPS is decent too. It’s comparable with Nightmare (Same config as Vindy).
Conflags vs Ego 1400 vs 1300
Scorch vs Dirac 875 vs 686
And on top of this we have 12000 alpha strike. And 3400+ overheated speed for BS. Cynabal!!! is 3650