I see what you mean, but functionally it will be easier if the Lux Kontos are just turrets. The Triglavian Entropic Disintegrators are turrets, but they hover like sentry guns.
Still waiting on ccp to do this but the dd should not affect subcaps or should have a sig effect to where it does not do as much damage to subcaps but other then that cool
In light of recent events, with the Drifters coming back into the spotlight, I’ve come back & performed some further fine-tuning and iteration on this shipline. Changes include:
- Completely overhauled of ship mass
- Significantly reduced Charyb base max velocity (522m/s → 484.1 m/s)
- Adjusted all Warp Lance ammo damage, stats
- Adjusted Fullborne Warp Lance ROF
- Adjusted Warp Lance reload time
- Doubled base heat damage taken by Warp Lance modules
- Reformatted attribute listings and module lists
- Removed a version of each HWD, leaving only one of each size
- Renamed Battleship HWD to Pandoric Hyperwarp Diffuser
- Revamped various descriptions
- Added calculations section (see below):
Tech I ammo (Dirac, Weyl, Majorana) inflicts KIN+EM damage.
Tech II ammo (Soma, Ego) inflicts even-spread omni damage.
Calculations performed assuming all V skills.
CHARYB
3x Light Warp Lance II +2x tech II damage mods
| | Optimal | Falloff | Tracking | Alpha | DPS (Heated) | Cap x3 |
|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|
| Soma S: | 24,500m | 12,500m | 132.8125 | 217.79 | 81.10 (162.23) | 10.46 GJ
| Weyl S: | 18,375m | 12,500m | 265.625 | 265.43 | 98.84 (197.72) | 7.85 GJ
| Dirac S: | 12,250m | 5,000m | 531.25 | 353.91 | 131.79 (263.62) | 5.23 GJ
| Majorana S: | 6,125m | 2,500m | 664.0625 | 476.41 | 177.41 (354.88) | 7.85 GJ
| Ego S3,062.5m | 2,500m | 531.25 | 626.14 | 233.16 (466.41) | 10.46 GJ
3x Lux Kopis +2x faction damage mods
| | Optimal | Falloff | Tracking | Alpha | DPS (Heated) | Cap x3 |
|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|
| Soma S: | 24,500m | 12,500m | 132.8125 | 246.12 | 91.65 (183.34) | 7.88 GJ
| Weyl S: | 18,375m | 12,500m | 265.625 | 299.96 | 111.70 (223.44) | 5.91 GJ
| Dirac S: | 12,250m | 5,000m | 531.25 | 399.95 | 148.93 (297.92) | 3.94 GJ
| Majorana S: | 6,125m | 2,500m | 664.0625 | 538.39 | 200.49 (401.05) | 5.91 GJ
| Ego Sw/ Tech II 5mn MWD: 3611.1 m/s (8871.56 heated)
w/ Faction 5mn MWD: 3622.89 m/s (8903.98 heated)
w/ A-type 5mn MWD: 3658.26 m/s (9001.23 heated)
SCYLLA
4x Heavy Warp Lance II +2x tech II damage mods
| | Optimal | Falloff | Tracking | Alpha | DPS (Heated) | Cap x4 |
|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|
| Soma M: | 50,500m | 25,000m | 13.60625 | 907.45 | 180.31 (360.69) | 84.00 GJ
| Weyl M: | 37,875m | 25,000m | 27.2125 | 1,225.06 | 243.42 (486.94) | 63.00 GJ
| Dirac M: | 25,250m | 10,000m | 54.425 | 1,633.42 | 324.57 (649.25) | 42.00 GJ
| Majorana M: | 16,625m | 5,000m | 68.03125 | 2,177.89 | 432.76 (865.67) | 63.00 GJ
| Ego M4x Heavy Warp Lance II +3x tech II damage mods
| | Optimal | Falloff | Tracking | Alpha | DPS (Heated) | Cap x4 |
|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|
| Soma M: | 50,500m | 25,000m | 13.60625 | 959.27 | 202.53 (405.13) | 84.00 GJ
| Weyl M: | 37,875m | 25,000m | 27.2125 | 1,295.01 | 273.42 (546.93) | 63.00 GJ
| Dirac M: | 25,250m | 10,000m | 54.425 | 1,726.68 | 364.56 (729.24) | 42.00 GJ
| Majorana M: | 16,625m | 5,000m | 68.03125 | 2,302.24 | 486.07 (972.32) | 63.00 GJ
| Ego M: | 6,312.5m | 5,000m | 54.425 | 3,069.66 | 648.10 (1,296.43) | 84.00 GJ4x Lux Xiphos +2x faction damage mods
| | Optimal | Falloff | Tracking | Alpha | DPS (Heated) | Cap x4 |
|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|
| Soma M: | 50,500m | 25,000m | 13.60625 | 1,025.51 | 203.77 (407.62) | 63.00 GJ
| Weyl M: | 37,875m | 25,000m | 27.2125 | 1,384.44 | 275.09 (550.29) | 47.25 GJ
| Dirac M: | 25,250m | 10,000m | 54.425 | 1,845.92 | 366.79 (733.72) | 31.50 GJ
| Majorana M: | 16,625m | 5,000m | 68.03125 | 2,461.23 | 489.06 (978.29) | 47.25 GJ
| Ego M: | 6,312.5m | 5,000m | 54.425 | 3,281.64 | 652.08 (1,304.39) | 63.00 GJ4x Lux Xiphos +3x faction damage mods
| | Optimal | Falloff | Tracking | Alpha | DPS (Heated) | Cap x4 |
|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|
| Soma M: | 50,500m | 25,000m | 13.60625 | 1,098.71 | 231.97 (464.02) | 63.00 GJ
| Weyl M: | 37,875m | 25,000m | 27.2125 | 1,483.26 | 313.16 (626.43) | 47.25 GJ
| Dirac M: | 25,250m | 10,000m | 54.425 | 1,977.68 | 417.55 (835.24) | 31.50 GJ
| Majorana M: | 16,625m | 5,000m | 68.03125 | 2,636.90 | 556.73 (1,113.66) | 47.25 GJ
| Ego M: | 6,312.5m | 5,000m | 54.425 | 3,515.87 | 742.31 (1,484.88) | 63.00 GJw/ Tech II 50mn MWD: 2388.06 m/s (5912.89 heated)
w/ Faction 50mn MWD: 2395.96 m/s (5934.61 heated)
w/ A-type 50mn MWD: 2419.66 m/s (5999.77 heated)
ARGO
5x Fullborne Warp Lance II +3x tech II damage mods
| | Optimal | Falloff | Tracking | Alpha | DPS (Heated) | Cap x5 |
|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|
| Soma L: | 100,000m | 50,000m | 1.765625 | 3,549.29 | 365.03 (730.19) | 360.00 GJ
| Weyl L: | 75,000m | 50,000m | 3.53125 | 4,712.41 | 484.65 (969.48) | 270.00 GJ
| Dirac L: | 50,000m | 20,000m | 7.0625 | 6,295.20 | 647.44 (1,295.10) | 180.00 GJ
| Majorana L: | 25,000m | 10,000m | 8.828125 | 8,393.60 | 863.25 (1,726.81) | 270.00 GJ
| Ego L5x Fullborne Warp Lance II +4x tech II damage mods
| | Optimal | Falloff | Tracking | Alpha | DPS (Heated) | Cap x5 |
|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|
| Soma L: | 100,000m | 50,000m | 1.765625 | 3,649.74 | 386.86 (773.85) | 360.00 GJ
| Weyl L: | 75,000m | 50,000m | 3.53125 | 4,845.77 | 513.63 (1,027.44) | 270.00 GJ
| Dirac L: | 50,000m | 20,000m | 7.0625 | 6,473.35 | 686.15 (1,372.54) | 180.00 GJ
| Majorana L: | 25,000m | 10,000m | 8.828125 | 8,631.14 | 914.86 (1,830.05) | 270.00 GJ
| Ego L5x Lux Kontos +3x faction damage mods
| | Optimal | Falloff | Tracking | Alpha | DPS (Heated) | Cap x5 |
|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|
| Soma L: | 100,000m | 50,000m | 1.765625 | 3,695.66 | 380.08 (760.30) | 270.00 GJ
| Weyl L: | 75,000m | 50,000m | 3.53125 | 4,906.73 | 504.64 (1,009.46) | 202.50 GJ
| Dirac L: | 50,000m | 20,000m | 7.0625 | 6,554.80 | 674.13 (1,348.51) | 151.86 GJ
| Majorana L: | 25,000m | 10,000m | 8.828125 | 8,739.73 | 898.85 (1,798.02) | 202.50 GJ
| Ego L5x Lux Kontos +4x faction damage mods
| | Optimal | Falloff | Tracking | Alpha | DPS (Heated) | Cap x5 |
|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|
| Soma L: | 100,000m | 50,000m | 1.765625 | 3,826.39 | 405.58 (811.31) | 270.00 GJ
| Weyl L: | 75,000m | 50,000m | 3.53125 | 5,080.31 | 538.49 (1,077.17) | 202.50 GJ
| Dirac L: | 50,000m | 20,000m | 7.0625 | 6,786.67 | 719.36 (1,438.97) | 151.86 GJ
| Majorana L: | 25,000m | 10,000m | 8.828125 | 9,048.90 | 959.14 (1,918.63) | 202.50 GJ
| Ego Lw/ Tech II 500mn MWD: 1395.38 m/s (3436.97 heated)
w/ Faction 500mn MWD: 1399.95 m/s (3449.55 heated)
w/ X-type 500mn MWD: 1418.25 m/s (3499.86 heated)
3 Likes
@CCP_Falcon ccplz?? ^^ also curious whether you guys have seen this and discussed it. Is that something you can answer?
1 Like
- Added some calculations for the Hyperwarp Diffuser modules
- Added thoughts on consumption availability for HWDs
Because I think it is very cool, I am giving you a free bump!
Oh and may I ask that those drifter ships get a bonus for remote shield reps? That would be awesome and something to our recent triglavian overlords.
Maybe a remote shield bonus and a nosferatu bonus like 100% drain amount of nosferatus which would make some cool and interesting new setups.
Thanks~ I’ve gotta talk back about the shield rep idea though: Drifters have no focus on reps in anything we’ve seen of them so far in lore, and adding increased remote reps would both conflict with the HWD concept (no ability to receive or cast remote assistance) as well as likely making their potential ability in groups start to scale wildly out of proportion.
I would enjoy seeing remote shield reps as a focused bonus in a group of ships at some point, though; linking something like that to a hypothetical Yan Jung shipline (an extinct faction that focused heavily on specializations surrounding force fields) would be fun to design - in fact, I already have some ideas on the backburner in that vein~
3 Likes
It may not be the right thing for drifters, lore-wise, no… (but then again, does anyone really think a player-flyable drifter BS will have a double layered shield or a doomsday?)
… but after giving us both the Nestor and the Leshak in the combat/RR hybrid BS category with not a single shield BS yet… CCP really needs to step it up. if they add the Drifter BS and cruiser (and possibly other drifter ships) as just standard combat ships only… then they need to think about adding either Thukker or something else with a shield combat/RR BS. CCPls!
Posts this well thought out are 1 in a million, bravo.
+1
3 Likes
I hope that the ships are put in the game
2 Likes
Been meaning to go through this thread for a while now, and I have to say that this is absolutely amazing to read. Well done, Uriel!
Though I do question why the Drifters would use T1+2 when they’re so much more advanced than the rest of New Eden. IMHO the Triglavians shouldn’t be used as a basis for what these ships would be like since they put in the time and effort to create blueprints and skillbooks that are compatible with New Eden’s fabricators and training hardware.
I mean, think about it: ships with literal black holes as their reactors shouldn’t be something New Eden can build without significantly gimping their capabilities, and that when the Triglavians aren’t doing a “cladistic proving” their ships would be just as nasty to fight as the old Jove vessels were back when the devs still flew them around. I hear that whenever their ships showed up in-game they’d only be fit with T2 modules at best, and even the frigates could beat the piss out of entire capsuleer fleets!
Takmahl aside, Precursor ships ought to be Tech 4-5 at minimum and require multiple cannibalized and reverse-engineered parts to create, both to make sure they’re rare as hell (at first) and reflect just how damn advanced these people were. IIRC a player managed to get their hands on a Visitant BP which showed the ship as Tech 5 (which required just tritanium to build, strangely enough), and then there was the Nibelung miner incident.
It’s a pity that Eve Online Ships doesn’t have the old Directorate vessels listed on the Jove Empire’s page. They’ve got a bunch of other stuff that was removed from the game, like the two frigates that the Apotheosis and Sunesis were made from. The Wikia also has them listed but I don’t know how accurate their info is.
Oh, I like this, I like it a lot! What made you pick those names for the Talocan and Takmahl ships? I recognize the former as Mesoamerican in origin but am drawing a blank on the latter.
I’m also wondering how they would be introduced to the game? A single “Precursor” skillbook that lets you pilot ships from no less than five different races seems pretty farfetched and lore-breaking to me, so I think it would be better if the Precursor ship skillbooks were a prerequisite for the skills needed to pilot Jove, Drifter/Sleeper, Yan Jung, Talocan, and standard Triglavian ships.
It would also be necessary to explain how New Eden is suddenly making leaps and bounds in reverse-engineering ancient technology that the empires have had access to for a while, but I think that will be relatively easy.
The Triglavian ships New Eden has been building coupled with the skillbooks the Triglavians have so helpfully provided will have served as stepping stones into furthering the empires’ understanding of technologies they have multiple examples of in varying levels of repair and functionality.
Until now they could barely make headway in understanding it beyond creating blueprints for modules kludged together using ancient artifacts but with the Triglavian technology now entering New Eden serving as an intermediate step, the Empires’ research efforts into ancient technologies are finally beginning to make headway.
They’re not the only ones who have benefitted from this. On the other side of the law, there have been reports of Serpentis researchers being funneled to some obscure location in the Curse region, and investigations finally unveil what that place is, simultaneously answering many questions about the Angel Cartel’s suspiciously advanced ships and how the Serpentis Corporation was able to create the Asklepian implants using what was recently revealed to be Drifter technology, as well as giving every government across the face of New Eden something they thought restricted to their nightmares.
After all, what better people to ask for reverse-engineering precursor technology than the ones who have been doing it for decades in the old Jove station they found?
Naturally, this lights a fire under all the other factions in New Eden, and they waste no time in putting a bounty on any information that can be gained from the Angels and Serpentis regarding Jove and Drifter technology. Unfortunately for the capsuleers looking to plunder what they think will be relatively easy pickings, the Angels have just rolled out some new ships to contest their attacks, along with three very powerful older models that haven’t been seen in a decade.
You see, back in the day Angel Cartel ships were intended to be partially Jove tech, which you can see by looking at the skill requirements of the Devourer, Fury, Lynx, Medusa, and Swordspine. I would also bet that back when the Dramiel, Cynabal, and Machariel were known as the Chaos, Ghoul, and Tyrant, and the Ixion was still in the database, they all required Jove ship skills in order to fly. You can find all four listed here, though the Tyrant uses a Nightmare model for some reason. (Also, the Immolator used to be an Angel ship called the Styx, which you can see here next to the Spectre. No image, but the TypeID is the same)
The discovery of the Jove station in Curse would coincide with the Angels sending their Chaos, Ghoul, and Tyrant-class ships out to fight again, now that the Cartel is able to properly maintain and operate them with the influx of components advanced enough to do so.
And…I think I let my train of thought get away from myself here.
Not really, no. The Jove only occupied the regions of A821-A and J7HZ-F. UUA-F4 is old Talocan space if I remember correctly, and the devs could leave it inaccessible to players unless and until they see fit to open it up to us and move their operations to another testing region or just stick to Polaris.
Lore-wise I think the T2 Triglavian ships should require ship skills from the empire that developed them; Gallente Frigate for the Nergal, Minmatar Destroyer for the Draugur, Caldari Cruiser for the Ikitursa, and Amarr Cruiser for the Zarmazd.
5 Likes
These look so cool! Why don’t we have them?
#CCPlease
1 Like
No idea, and I agree that it’s really strange that we don’t have them as flyable ships, especially since they’ve been in the game since it launched back in 2003. That said, this isn’t the thread for discussing Angel ships and we should probably take it elsewhere if you want to continue.
That’s a spiny subject, lots of people want to see the Angel capital ships that got teased years ago 
1 Like
So, responses:
-
Yeah, the “Precursor” skillbooks can easily be segued into being the reason we could begin to use other precursor techlines by saying that they contain libraries of auxiliary info, all compiled by the Triglavians - something I wrote descriptions based around, actually.
-
Precursor stuff being Tech I and II has its weirdness, but it’s reasonable too - Tech Level is more of a tech “type” than a power category (e.g. tech II uses morphite, tech III uses reverse-engineered Sleeper tech and copious fullerenes, and abyssal modules were for a time being considered for being called tech IV), plus the stratification would definitely be confusing for newer players in terms of “how strong is this thing”.
-
Angel ships (yes, off topic I know) are another fun thing, but I’d wager that the main reason we haven’t seen the rest of them (which had descriptions added a number of years back, describing their roles) is that other pirate factions don’t have and wouldn’t have equivalents - precursors seem to be more focused on being whole shiplines, as opposed to the pirate/non-empire ones.
3 Likes
Maybe, maybe not. Even if the Jove ships have been removed from the game files the skills for them are still available, so we may eventually see new ships that require those skills aside from the Angels’ selection and the CONCORD dev ships (I actually have a list of in-game links to their entries that I could send to you if you want).
Not really. ‘Augmented’ drones require T2 drones to make but are only classified as T1, and some of the faction modules are just plain better than T2 versions in nearly every way but still require T1 modules to exchange at LP stores. CCP just seems to have issues with keeping tech levels consistent, probably because of the way their icons are rendered; it’s not possible to have an icon with both T2 and faction/deadspace/officer/storyline/abyssal triangles. Not yet at least.
I really think the module tiericide should include everything’s tech level getting reclassified as well, preferably with each module getting little lore blurbs added to them like what models are sold by companies across New Eden. There have been a number of renamed modules in the game’s history, and I’d like to see their old names return even if it’s just in their description tab.
In all honesty, I don’t see the problem with the Angel Cartel having a large selection of lighter ships (frigates and cruisers) since they’re supposed to be all about speed and firepower. I also think that there ought to be separate ‘hybrid’ shiplines for various groups that belong to a particular faction but incorporate technology from another, like any Angel ships that would require Jove skills to fly, or theoretical Blood Raider ships that would incorporate Takmahl technology (presuming they’re what the Takmahl became, of course).
Though that would present the (lore) issue of the T2 Triglavian ships logically requiring their originating empire’s ship skills to use in addition to the Precursor and T2 ship command skills.
1 Like
Sorry for my ignorance but wouldn’t that suggest being a pirate faction ship then?
No, it’s only a pirate faction ship if it came from a pirate faction. This would just be a hybrid ship.
Responding to bump this really great post, but also point out a few very glaring issues that make adoption with the numbers suggested pretty impossible. To summarize, lets look at the Charyb:
Traits:
Great. Unique, not terribly overpowered because of no reduction in heat damage. Very T3C-esque, definitively drifter.
Fitting:
Problems. While the slot layout is fine, PG is quite high and the CPU is bonkers high, higher than any T1 frig by over 40. Those need serious nerfs to come into line with everything else.
Attributes:
Uh oh. Base HP is ok, being a shield mirror of the Damavik, lower than most pirate frigs. Then we get to resistances. Plugging the EM hole, you have a perfectly tankable resists. Not terrible, but very unusual. Speed -was- madness, but now is just the fastest frigate in the game, surpassing even all interceptors. A bold move, but we’ll let it slide. Agility is fine.
Why does this ship have drones? It absolutely should not looking at your overall concept of the shipline. Sig radius should be 32m or higher. Cargo capacity is WAY higher than any frig, should be 120-160m2.
Summary: The values you stated do not line up with most frigates in the game, including the other precursor, the Damavik. Looking at attributes alone, the Damavik has good drones, utility highs, and its unique weapon. If the drifters give up drones and utility highs for crazy mobility and it’s unique weapon, make sure they actually do that with the frig having no drones and normal fitting limitations.
This can be applied to the entire lineup.
2 Likes
You make some very good points that I definitely want to consider - some points are relics from earlier iterations that I failed to reconsider when changing some things (the fitting most of all, owing to an early worry of fitting the turrets to non-drifter ships - something easily fixed by limiting them to just these hulls, but where I apparently failed to later readjust some consequential attributes), and others are simply very relevant issues that warrant taking a look at.
I’m gonna take some time and write a comprehensive response & some adjustments based on your response. Above all, the frigate was certainly the most messy of the ships here - it’s been a good while since I’ve gone back and looked at what could be adjusted, and you’ve given me a few really good reasons to do so, so thanks~
3 Likes