Have you actually taken the time to look into the talks CCP has given where they investigate new player retention and the data we have about how and where they get killed?
Because it just seems your opinion is solely based on your gut feelings and you haven’t invested a minute validating it by looking at all those hundred of other threads that talk about the same thing and where we have discussed this to death over and over again.
no, its based on having recruited for two newbro corps in highsec, having them moan about these exact issues and quitting.
Im not sure how ccp collected their data but you can bet your *** its incomplete. You have a link to the source?
it is based on knowing people other than those in code.
its not a biased opinion such as yours.
If it wasnt an issue why are there so many threads about it?
Here they looked into 80k new players and tried to figure out if the common sentiment that ganking causes new players to leave is true. They also looked at all the responses they get from the account cancellation reasons and < 1% cite ship loss.
Here CCP Quant looked into all the data they have collected over the years. The figured out that the most important reason a player sticks around is if they where killed by another player followed by if they joined a LARGE corp.
Then we have the guy from zKillboard which looks at the data he has to determine where people get killed (the majority of new players is not in this data because they simply don’t get killed) and a really really small percentage gets killed in Highsec:
Take a look at them. The big majority of those threads are not from new players, they are from old players who have various reasons to make Highsec a safer place. I think most of them have actually good intentions like yourself and try to genuinely help new players. But there are also a good portion who just want a 100% secure farming ground and use new players as an excuse.
In almost every single one of those threads are actually new players speaking out that this isn’t all really a problem for them because they can handle the game. Which is realistic, think back to the time you joined, did you perceive Highsec as a super dangerous place? And it was much much more dangerous back then objectively.
As for the people who are genuinely trying to help players. I know you just mean well, but you are underestimating them. They are not children and I really think that for some reason people think of new players as children which have to be protected and nurtured, it’s like a parenting instinct gone wrong. Because they are not children looking for safety and you feeding them, they are games looking for an interesting game to play which challenges and entertains them.
They come to EVE expecting space battles, an interesting sandbox full of action, industry betrail and space politics they may have heard about. But what they get is a really dull Highsec where you can shoot some NPC pirates and mine, where noting interesting ever happens except you actually happen to come across a real player pirate who engages with other players in the system.
Isolating new players even more is the complete opposite of what CCP should do and they already figured that out by looking at the actual data they have. But despite their effort to communicate it it seems that most players still hold on to this idea that new players have to mine for half a year in complete safety to “get ready” or something.
I would agree if it was that simple that newbros should get shot; i dont agree they should be able to be harrassed and farmed for easy kills in highsec simply because people can.
It has a knock on effect of them going to places they are not ready for, getting killed again and again and then quitting because eve has been made too hard for them.
This is what the issue is, eve isn’t hard; but it can be if people are specifically making it that way for you, one could say that many highsec ‘pvpers’ are harassing a specific type of person in hs and that could be seen as against the eula; but being new, an alpha or having low sp isn’t seen as a ‘group classification’ of people; maybe its this that should change?
Just so your aware, many people who join groups like horde also become incredibly dissatisfied with the game; it is 'ing boring for many to sit in blobs all day and these groups do not teach or show players another way.
Many of the new players that join horde do so on advice from people in highsec “join horde or another bloc for safe space” im sure you’ve heard, even said it… and this is where ccp’s research becomes incomplete; because it is more of a cascade of events that lead to someone leaving; not just one - its not something easily read by looking at statistics that do indeed really only state one item.
Highsec was more fun when i started, it was more level; few had t2 cruisers let alone used them, small pirate groups littered the place and jetcanning was a thing; not really sure why these items were changed but it has led to the sad current state of highsec pvp as we know it today; t1 logistics ships also play their part but mostly its due to lack of any real conflict, either over resources or over griefing.
i learned to pvp in highsec, then branched out into lowsec and learned more; then null and then wormholes; this should be the natural way of things more or less but so much has been changed it seems only a handful of options are left.
Perhaps this is why it seems players only greif new players now in highsec; because thats literally all there is to do?
I have no idea if that is an issue. Maybe it is, but it is not what I was talking about. I specifically addressed your points about people leaving because they get “farmed” in Highsec, which the data clearly shows is not a thing, it never was.
Yes there are probably huge issues in many different places that lead to people quiting the game because it wasn’t how they imagined it or it was just not interesting enough for them. I actually agree, but point I try to make here is that Highsec griefing is NOT the issue. CCP has looked into this specifically because it is always the scape goat that gets the blame for player attrition. Sure there are people who quit because of it, but the amount of players that do so is just minuscule.
So instead of beating the death horse how about actually focusing on the parts of the game where actually may be a real problem present?
Are you seriously asking that question? Highsec aggression mechanics where nerfed over and over again. The lonely little highsec pirate playstile was eradicated because of the same fallacious arguments we see still today, that highsec greifers make new players quit. The few that staid had to organize and professionalised to make it viable for them again.
Those options where all removed because people pushed for nerfs to game mechanics in an attempt to make Highsec safer for new players. That’s why it is no longer viable, that is why it is so boring in Highsec.
And honestly I don’t lie when I say that we are the single most interesting thing that can happen to a new player in Highsec. Because we talk in local and present a target, a villain they can chose to fight (or join) in an otherwise dull and empty space without opportunities and entertaining content.
And most of us will go for the old 9 year old miner in a Hulk and not the newb in a Venture mining beside him, because what would be the point in that? The Hulk killmail and the potential implanted pod are so much more appealing. I have to wait 15min after each kill, I don’t waste it with killing Ventures. But even if we kill an older guy beside him, the new player will still experience the action and be part of it in some way.
Someone actually calculated the average age of all the miners he killed and it was around 4 years. I haven’t done that for my killboard, but maybe I should and I bet it is even higher.
So what you attempt here is to remove those last bits of content as well. Do you see how bad that would be? Not for me, I gank because I think it is hilarious. I kill a ship and stick around with the suspect looter to see what happens and it is never the same, it’s just class A entertainment for me. But if it get’s removed I will find something else. I was living in w-space for 4 years before that, maybe I will go back there, who knows.
In the end instead on focusing so much on an issue which is demonstrably just a perception issue and not backed by data at all, how about concentrating on the ACTUAL issues like the one you mentioned with the null corps. If that is an issue then why is no one crying about that if they are genuinely interested in improving the situation for new player and help them find fun and entertainment in this game?
I’ve died allot since day one this is my 18th day. All I have been doing is exploring since that’s all a new player can do without dying of boredom mining all day. I don’t use weapons I don’t attack anyone all I do is explore. Now I know with exploring it comes with it’s dangers so dying will happen allot especially when I’m in a corps that doesn’t do any exploration so I got no one to learn from. The last incident just happened an hour ago I was in a wh on a relic site when I see on d scan an astero warping in so I lock onto the guy (not that I can do anything) with my magnate and I ask him to leave so his response to me was “that I’m too stupid to be doing exploration it’s like I want to die” And after about 5 minutes since I was busy with containers I ask him since I know his still there “So what am I doing wrong can you tell me or teach me what I’m doing wrong”? And as I press the enter key his cloaked buddy comes along and shoots me. Now there’s probably a hundred stories to what I was doing wrong the thing that sticks out for me is you all that voted “yes teach the little bastards a lesson kill them all” Your toxic behaviour will never make this game grow eve might not die now but stagnate Yes, except for the few occasions that the victim was reimbursed (I’ve not once been reinbursed" or recruited). When you one day quit the game because real life has finally caught up will you be proud to know that you helped eve grow and prosper with a new community keeping it alive? or will you be happy to know that your toxic behaviour along with the few thousand people that play this game that most likely voted yes would eventually see eve servers shut down due to hardly any player base? Think about it next time you see an unarmed ship trying to play a game that’s got no time for new players.
Or why did he lock the other guy and ask him to leave, when he is unarmed? This must have been seen by the other guy as a hostile behaviour. Getting locked and asked to leave isn’t exactly a friendly welcome.