M structures are about to be nurfed. I don’t see that helping anyone invest into this space to help with this demand.
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-smaller groups shouldn’t have a keepstar but go on I get what you mean, M structures are basically worthless.
-disagree, but go on
Yes they are, and industry people actually like logistics (well as in the aggregate in completing builds, but yea)
Sorry Mii I agree this isn’t the change that will fix the mess CCP put us in, but disagree on a lot of things you mentioned.
Great point here.
These changes won’t affect me in the slightest, I’m just gonna keep on building catalysts. If reactions have been moved to high-sec I may start on battleships again, but that’s not going to happen. So ill just keep throwing out blappy destroyers.
Are we seeing this from the same lenses? Faction ship manufacturing costs were never a problem, it has always been the steep loyalty point cost that was prohibitive. 60m for a stabber fleet?
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HOW IN SPACE (;D) did we decide to do everything but fix the isogen crisis?
Isogen currently makes up almost half the value of every capital construction component and every t1 battleship.
Reducing the costs elsewhere will only exacerbate the issue. Please fix this issue rather than adding to it!
edit: A more complete fix would be to reduce the amount of isogen required for capital components, and decrease the amount of each capital component required in capital BPs by slightly less than shown in the spreadsheet, to compensate.
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shhhhhhhhh don’t speak of this… I want my isogen stock pile to be worth even more! I want isogen prices to go 
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When pirate bs price drop?
I want a rattlesnake.
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Isogen is certainly currently the bottleneck of production, and with these changes I agree that this will only get worse.
In this situation, it is important to clarify the difference between an “asset bubble” and a “supply bottleneck”. A bubble is a fluctuation in nominal value of an asset due to the forward-looking nature of speculation, and collapses when the speculators run out of buying power. A “supply bottleneck” is a chronic condition where an asset cannot be supplied quickly enough to allow for production, in this case, because of the risk associated with mining in low sec and trig space vs the safety of null sec.
The amount of isogen required in battleships and capital components implies that isogen is supposed to be like the “tritanium of low sec”. This seems rather impossible because the isk/hour of low sec mining has to be much, much higher than null sec ores in order to draw miners.
IMO, the best fix to this issue would be a combination of significantly lower isogen requirements AND significantly fewer spawns of isogen-containing asteroids, because the issue is one of RISK, as opposed to absolute availability. Such a change would allow isogen to retain a high isk/hour and help it take its place as a proper rare-ish low sec mineral.
Or we could just sit back and watch how high it goes… my bet is 1k by the end of april XD
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So in other words, screw the miners more, so we can then continue to build so we can now make more isk. Thats the whole problem with this game ways too much constant messing with what works, then change that last change because its screwed then change that change and so on and so on… How about @CCP just hire back the economist that used to look after this for them or for that matter find another one. This game just keeps getting worse and worse every year. Too much constant messing around by people that dont know what they are actually doing. A brain surgery thats preformed by a welder probably would not be very good for the patient.
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Yeah, that would certainly be a big improvement over the current proposal. Appreciate you pushing for that.
That being said, it still isn’t really ideal. As another poster pointed out on the other thread- the armor is currently when the fighting happens. No defenders are there on shield, so that’s boring. A small corp can’t risk it all on a fight they’re very likely to lose, so they evacuate before hull. But armor is the golden spot in the middle where they can fight without risking everything. That’s when the best structure fights happen with small corp stations. If we remove that, then there won’t be hardly any structure fights from small corps. So, IMO, the ideal solution might be just to not make this change at all in WH or Pochven.
But, like I said, 2 additional days, if that’s what we can get, would certainly be a huge improvement. That would make WH living remain viable.
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Their citadel cores were supposed to help with everything lol yea a added cost and nothing part… And now refining it to actually mean nothing for those cores. But we forget about them because that was last month
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How often did folks actually defend on the armor timer when they knew they were going to get blobbed?
Not as infrequently as you might think in WHs, I would say. It is not a sure thing that attackers will come back for armor at all- we get lots of drive by reinforcements, sometimes paired with demands for a ransom, where nobody actually wants to hang around long enough to deal with armor. And, if they do come back, it isn’t a sure thing that it will be a blob- getting a blob back to a particular wormhole, with mass limits and shifting entrances, isn’t always that easy. There probably is some way for CCP to pull actual stats, which would be interesting. But I think you see at least some attempt to defend a structure on armor fairly often in wormholes, but very rarely on shield or hull.
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I’m about as far as you get from a roleplayer, but cores bothered even me on that front, lol. A product that was redesigned to require a huge new, expensive, part, that you need just to enable the functionality that existed before it was invented, lol. They should have at least tacked some trivial new functionality on there to explain it away…
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Unfortunately planning ahead is not one of CCP’s strong suits, so they make things and then big null groups in particular break them and then they bring the nerfhammer down on everyone’s head because the big null groups exploit or abuse a product/feature that CCP didn’t plan ahead for, and now nobody can have fun because the null groups aren’t having fun.
See: Titans
Supercarriers
Combat refitting
Capital/cyno transport(though the low sec guys abused this one, too)
Ishtars
Citadels
And probably many dozen other things my old noggin is forgetting off the top of my head.
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CCP loves to fix crap but each time they do it breaks the game. Dreads have been fixed a few times but now they are gonna try to fix the dead dread. You notice most other caps did not get near as much love, takes alot more to revive something that is not being used. why do you think people stopped building caps ?
cost to build are not equal to price, building price slowly just like in RL people will accept when you take something that cost 18 bill to build and make it 50 bill to build but sales price is 30 , Does it take a rocket scientist to figure it out… Hire one to help you ccp.
Could we get the size of capital parts reduced slightly? Like in half or by 3/4? Would really make a huge difference in making them easier to build while also still having a reasonable size penalty to prevent mass shipping.
That’s good, even mobile depots have a 2 day timer, 1.5 is a joke tbh
I think a good compromise for the little guy on med structures is to cut the core cost in half to disincentivise griefing small corps to farm structure cores
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