Siege Green - Manufacturing and Ship Blueprint Updates

[PixyWarrior_Ellecon]

Make Tritanium great again!!!

[Lafiel_Perun]

There is more than one bottleneck.
All of the itmes like Electro-Neural Signaller, Nanoscale Filter Plate and so on will be a big bottleneck
The bottleneck with the most impact on the rest of the game will be Isogen. The super genius move of making it only availble in lowsec alreay lead to a bick spice in price, but that will get way worse than its now.
And of curse ppl will not sell under buildcost, so a Dread woud be right now 2,7B but Isogen getting more and more to the a problem so it will end at 3b al least.

[PixyWarrior_Ellecon]

There is nothing wrong with isogen spiking in cost. Just makes mining it that much more valuable and forces people to venture to new places to mine, or to look elsewhere for supplies.

[Capt_n_Nemo]

@Brisc_Rubal

Like I said, it frightens me the kinds of things people will believe in order to lessen the blow of losing.

Okay but… Do you have an answer or rebuttal for what you call nonsense or are you just going to content yourself to ‘lol’ ?
Is that what a member of CSM does? Laughs at players who may have a theory based on observations?

In fact, what is it you do as a member of CSM? I mean, besides laughing at players and being a jerk?

@Esnaelc_Sin_led

I don’t understand.
One of the goals was to prevent Cap proliferations wasn’t it ?
Why going back on that goal by lowering prices to what they were before the patch ?

Lots of good questions in this thread… Will the answers be forthcoming or will CCP/CSM/Dev just ignore and move on?

@Lightbringers

It’s all sad. Instead of creating something new, the CCP is engaged in endless edits for the sake of large collectives.

That stinks to high heaven. A Dev team playing favorites with their players can only end badly.
I already read that a lot of CCP Devs hate Gallente ( or was it Caldari ? and that the Trig invasion was meant to cut that faction down a few notches… that’s bizarre. Aren’t Devs supposed to be neutral or am I missing something?

And then there is this:

@AshenShugar01

You drove a massive amount of indy alts from the game, a significant portion of mains too with the ill thought out toxic as f#ck industry ‘rebalance.’ They wont come back.

Want to know why? Because spaceships in a spaceship sim should be easy as to build, cheap as chips and numerous so that people fly them in droves, throw them at each other for fun and lose them in epic glorious combat. You have made industry tedious, painful and complex, making it a bit easier and cheaper now doesnt go far enough.

So many changes in the last few years have damaged the game (Industry, scarcity, resource distribution, WCS and nullification, random lethal high sec NPCs, structures and more) you failed to respect and love your existing player base so massively that they stopped logging in. Take a moment here to realise how BAD your changes had to be to drive these kinds of players from the game they loved… EVE players would pay TWICE what you asked for a monthly subsciption to play, they would play half their waking hours, step through fire to get to the keyboard but you CCP f#cked this up. All the while failing to retain new players.

Is AshenShugar completely delirious or is there truth to what he posted?

Looks like I’m catching EVE Online on the downturn and from all I’ve read I got this understanding that the game was once great but a few people moved in with baseball bats and wrecked the whole show.
Then there’s a video that caught my attention, the one where we see CCP employee just spawn a new ship right into space next to him in order to save face and get out of a tight spot… That looks really bad for an online game. It tells me that Devs and CSM members are taking advantage of players who aren’t ‘in the loop’, ganking them and using them for content. I don’t mind that older players get content from noobs, that’s the way of things, but I think that anyone involved with development shouldn’t be a player and PvP against regular players.
Then there’s this bit about the CSM which I don’t like at all. Regular players from big corporations sounding off about issues that affect them while ‘lol’ing’ at regular players’ theories and ideas about what they observe and deduce… it stinks of unprofessionalism and player abuse.
Not going to even mention the Forum since we can’t even talk about what’s wrong here…hah!

If that’s what EVE is, if that’s the way it’s run ( by a bunch of neck-beard amateurs ) then I have to say that there are much better games out there, games where the Devs respect their community and don’t talk down to them in public forum.
I’m glad I smelled foul before sinking real money in this trainwreck.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Capt_n_Nemo

Okay but… Do you have an answer or rebuttal for what you call nonsense or are you just going to content yourself to ‘lol’ ?

There is no need to rebut what is obviously not true.

@Capt_n_Nemo

Is that what a member of CSM does? Laughs at players who may have a theory based on observations?

When those theories are absolutely absurd? Yes, this is what I do.

@Capt_n_Nemo

In fact, what is it you do as a member of CSM? I mean, besides laughing at players and being a jerk?

I represent the players to CCP, provide the company with feedback on things they propose to do, and try to work for the betterment of the game.

@Capt_n_Nemo

Then there’s this bit about the CSM which I don’t like at all. Regular players from big corporations sounding off about issues that affect them while ‘lol’ing’ at regular players’ theories and ideas about what they observe and deduce… it stinks of unprofessionalism and player abuse.

We are regular players. The idea that CCP was putting their thumb on the scale for one group while not only members, but the leaders of the groups opposing that group sat on the CSM and had a direct line to the devs is just goofy. I went into more detail on this on the Meta Show last weekend, if you care to watch that segment.

[Capt_n_Nemo]

@Brisc_Rubal

There is no need to rebut what is obviously not true.

Really? How do we know it’s not true? Because you say it? Dude, I don’t know you from Adam or Eve and I’m supposed to take your word at face value over other players who played just as much as you?
No, it’s only “obvious” to you… how convenient.

@Brisc_Rubal

When those theories are absolutely absurd? Yes, this is what I do.

Absurd, maybe, but there is enough there to start asking questions and wishing for more than a ‘lol’ as a rebuttal.
How did you become CSM? An election? Like the presidential elections where everything is rigged and predetermined?

@Brisc_Rubal

I represent the players to CCP, provide the company with feedback on things they propose to do, and try to work for the betterment of the game.

Well, if you’d please take your attention to player numbers… looks like you failed.

@Brisc_Rubal

The idea that CCP was putting their thumb on the scale for one group while not only members, but the leaders of the groups opposing that group sat on the CSM and had a direct line to the devs is just goofy

It may be a goofy idea, but the poster gave reasons to believe so, even if they were conjectures and such, blowing him off like that just doesn’t make CSM look good and gives a bad image to new players.
If you have no time to post respectfully then don’t post at all, it would be better than giving the impression that you don’t give a hoot what players think. It looks like you don’t give a sh- about player rentention and maybe you don’t, seeing how happy you are in your Null hole.

@Brisc_Rubal

We are regular players

NO. I AM a regular player, you are not. You are a representative of the CSM with a direct line to CCP. You’re supposed to represent ALL players, even the ones with unverifiable theories, not laugh at them in the forum. But if you consider yourself a “regular” player then maybe it’s time ISD start to hide your unsavory comments, censure you on here, just so you know how it feels to be jerked around while paying for premium time on a game that’s losing players faster than the Exxon-Valdes leaked petrolium into the sea.

[Brisc_Rubal]

Watch the video. We explain why it’s not true. The folks claiming that CCP somehow helped us win the last war are butthurt that they lost, and many of the changes cited, like the TTT tax changes, impacted us as much as anybody else. And there were plenty of changes made that negatively impacted us, and there was a bug in the game that cost us more than a dozen titans and a lost engagement. CCP was not actively helping us win, and those who claim that are doing a disservice to the company, to us and to PAPI when they make those nonsense allegations. They’re not even remotely credible. I guess that’s why only somebody who has been around a month could even think they’re remotely plausible.

As for the rest, like I said, when you say absurd and dumb things, you’re going to get laughed at. I am just a regular player. All of us on the CSM are just regular players. I don’t make the game, so don’t lay CCP’s failures at my feet - we can only provide advice, we can’t force them to do what we suggest, and many of the changes they’ve made over the last year have been done despite our complaints, not with our blessing.

I did lol at the presidential election joke, though. That was cute.

[Capt_n_Nemo]

@Brisc_Rubal

Watch the video. We explain why it’s not true. The folks claiming that CCP somehow helped us win the last war are butthurt that they lost, and many of the changes cited, like the TTT tax changes, impacted us as much as anybody else. And there were plenty of changes made that negatively impacted us, and there was a bug in the game that cost us more than a dozen titans and a lost engagement. CCP was not actively helping us win, and those who claim that are doing a disservice to the company, to us and to PAPI when they make those nonsense allegations. They’re not even remotely credible.

I’ll try to get into that video but I ain’t going to watch for one hour, that’s reserved for blockbusters in my schedule. I’d like to believe it’s not credible and really, I don’t see CCP doing that, although it looks like more than coincidence, and simply laughing at it isn’t going to convince anyone. In fact, your ‘lol’ told me you had no intelligent reply and simply tried to avoid the subject. Also, if it was so absurd, why even reply?

@Brisc_Rubal

I guess that’s why only somebody who has been around a month could even think they’re remotely plausible.

I’ve seen and heard enough in my life to seriously look into “ridiculous” claims and determine for myself whether it’s true or not and I would’ve done that if I had played EVE for ten years. Except in this case there is no way to know for sure so the doubt will be there until positive confirmation of the contrary is put forward. I’m not a sheep. A lot of “ridiculous” claims have proved true in the past 50 years to the point where nothing surprises me anymore.

@Brisc_Rubal

As for the rest, like I said, when you say absurd and dumb things, you’re going to get laughed at

Sure, I just didn’t expect that from a responsible representative of the playerbase. And if that’s the way you post, I don’t see any more value in your posts than in AshenShugar’s so why should I believe you over him?

@Brisc_Rubal

I am just a regular player. All of us on the CSM are just regular players.

That’s what you keep saying. So, as a regular player myself, do you think I can sit in one of CCP’s powows and give input and suggestions and state what the players like and do not like?
I bet not. Why? Because I’m a regular player and you CSM members are not.

@Brisc_Rubal

I did lol at the presidential election joke, though. That was cute.

Yeah, thanks. I like that one, too.

[PixyWarrior_Ellecon]

You talk too much.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Capt_n_Nemo

I’ll try to get into that video but I ain’t going to watch for one hour, that’s reserved for blockbusters in my schedule. I’d like to believe it’s not credible and really, I don’t see CCP doing that, although it looks like more than coincidence, and simply laughing at it isn’t going to convince anyone. In fact, your ‘lol’ told me you had no intelligent reply and simply tried to avoid the subject. Also, if it was so absurd, why even reply?

That’s why I queued it up at the part where we specifically talked about this for you. It’s the 42 minute mark, if the thing didn’t do it right.

@Capt_n_Nemo

I’ve seen and heard enough in my life to seriously look into “ridiculous” claims and determine for myself whether it’s true or not and I would’ve done that if I had played EVE for ten years. Except in this case there is no way to know for sure so the doubt will be there until positive confirmation of the contrary is put forward. I’m not a sheep. A lot of “ridiculous” claims have proved true in the past 50 years to the point where nothing surprises me anymore.

Nobody credible is making these claims, including the leadership of PAPI. They would kind of be in a good position to know if CCP was helping us, since Vily, Gobbins and PGL were on the CSM this term, and Vily and Gobbins were on throughout the war. Don’t you think that if CCP was actually actively helping us it would be those guys leading the charge complaining about it? Especially since they’re the ones who lost the war and it would be really, really convenient to blame someone else for their loss?

This is common sense.

@Capt_n_Nemo

Sure, I just didn’t expect that from a responsible representative of the playerbase.

Yes, yes, when we get elected we turn in our ability to laugh at people when they say funny things.

@Capt_n_Nemo

That’s what you keep saying. So, as a regular player myself, do you think I can sit in one of CCP’s powows and give input and suggestions and state what the players like and do not like?
I bet not. Why? Because I’m a regular player and you CSM members are not.

You are more than welcome to reach out to CCP and provide your input to them. Some folks would tell you you’re better off doing that directly than going through me or any of the other members. But seriously - being on the CSM does not change anything about how I play the game, nor does it give me any benefits in the game. We’re all just regular players. We aren’t devs, we don’t have any special powers.

[Capt_n_Nemo]

@Brisc_Rubal

That’s why I queued it up at the part where we specifically talked about this for you. It’s the 42 minute mark, if the thing didn’t do it right.

thanks!

@Brisc_Rubal

Don’t you think that if CCP was actually actively helping us it would be those guys leading the charge complaining about it? Especially since they’re the ones who lost the war and it would be really, really convenient to blame someone else for their loss?

This is common sense.

Yes, that makes much more sense than a ‘lol’, I agree.

@Brisc_Rubal

Yes, yes, when we get elected we turn in our ability to laugh at people when they say funny things.

You might think it’s funny because you personally know it’s not true but to people who do not have your insight and position it’s not funny, that sounded all kinds of messed up and what you wrote in your last post could’ve helped prevent this thread from being highjacked by me, wanting to know.

@Brisc_Rubal

You are more than welcome to reach out to CCP and provide your input to them.

now let me be the one who replies with a ‘lol’…

LOL!!

[Capt_n_Nemo]

@PixyWarrior_Ellecon

You talk too much.

Then I hope I’m eloquent and well-spoken.

[Lafiel_Perun]

Its force(!) ppl to play in lowsec, whether they want to or not. As the opposite of how a sandbox should be.
And where are all the miners that take advantage “much more valuable” mining? I hardly know anyone who likes to mining in lowsec. And when a ship that consists of almost 100 basic materials has 1/5 of one material - and the trend is upwards - then something is wrong.

And btw, look at 1 year price history of Isogen in jita, than we can talk again.

[Lafiel_Perun]

@Capt_n_Nemo

Looks like I’m catching EVE Online on the downturn and from all I’ve read I got this understanding that the game was once great but a few people moved in with baseball bats and wrecked the whole show.

Yes eve was in a MUCH better state befor all this “industry fixes”. Thats way a lot of this “fixes” are now getting rolled back.

I’d rather not say anything about the other things you wrote… it’s just too ridiculous.

[Capt_n_Nemo]

@Lafiel_Perun

I’d rather not say anything about the other things you wrote… it’s just too ridiculous.

Yeah. Don’t worry. I’m done.

[Maenth]

Another hypernerf to medium structures doesn’t bother me becasue I gave up on seeing structures as valuable a long time ago. I also don’t mind capital ships being made cheaper as their cost increase before was so substantial. However,

This much of a price decrease feels like an insult to people who have been building the ships affected. It is also disappointing, because a decription of the new large/faction ship material system was like “levers” to be able to adjust ship costs … but THIS change, isn’t not adjusting levers. THIS change, looks at the machine with its calibrated economy-adjusting levers, and just takes a hammer to economic areas that need ‘adjustment’.

Of course, it’s not just the brutality of this changeset, but also the unkindness of it. People gradually accept the new system and start building the expensive new ships, and they are rewarded by seeing their material and ship values slashed in half - a massive waste to isk and effort, for those who accepted your new complex ship industry.

I’m not a manufacturer of those affected ships so I’m not bothered and criticizing on behalf of my own gameplay but as a manufacturer in general I can empathize for those who put in the effort and investment and get slapped like this. It would be fine if it was an incremental price drop toward this point, but this is just a slash-in-half cost for capitals (and less but still a huge cost drop to others). Rude.

[MOZZARK]

Still a way to go

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Mudekai

CCP and the CSM have fuq’ed up the game way to much.

Don’t blame us for scarcity. I know that I and others on the CSM have been arguing against it from the beginning.

[Quantum_Ace]

I’m not sure they did. Either way, it’s a shame the changes were shown as a vague “changelog” instead of just putting all the values for the new BPC

[Vlerii]

Всё хорошо, просто прекрасно для больших корпорации. Когда вы всё же будете блюсти честь для маленьких сообществ?
У всех конструкций Upwell будет снят защитный колпачок повреждения. Просто прекрасно для двух трёх дредов что могут позволить себе развитые корпорации.
Что делать игроку , который хоть как то решил попробовать в нулях поставить станцию и посмотреть, а может и создать коллектив единомышленников и отжать систему? Не в этом разве интерес игры?